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    Re: Special Livery for Flying Lizard's First Two-Porsche Le Mans Program

     Guys - This is for those that would like to follow live timing and follow the coverage on Radio Le Mans.

    I will be using this as well as the "official " live timing from the ACO (I am a member of the Passion 24 Club)

    www.thomasbaekdal.com/mini-sites/lemans2011/

     


    Re: Special Livery for Flying Lizard's First Two-Porsche Le Mans Program

    I finally managed to get a picture of the Felbermayr team after scrutineering.

    103.JPG


    Re: Special Livery for Flying Lizard's First Two-Porsche Le Mans Program

    Things haven't started well for the #76 IMSA Porsche. Narac has just had a big crash (apparently at the Porsche curves) and the car has substantial damage.

    As predicted, the BMW's are fastest.


    Re: Special Livery for Flying Lizard's First Two-Porsche Le Mans Program

    Thanks for the update!

    Fastest + pretty reliable, that doesn't bode well for Porsche!


    Re: Special Livery for Flying Lizard's First Two-Porsche Le Mans Program

     “We’ll struggle a bit for straight line speed but where we do struggle for top speed we’ll make up for in reliability and really smooth work in the pits. Certainly our strategy will be to be there at the end and to win it in traditional endurance form. I wouldn’t put any money on qualifying on the pole, but that hasn’t been our way of winning races for the last couple of years. I’m not losing any sleep over that. It’s always festive the entire week at Le Mans, and I think this year will be exceptional.” Patrick Long


    Re: Special Livery for Flying Lizard's First Two-Porsche Le Mans Program

    End of free practice. the BMW's are first and second. One of the Vette's is 3rd and the fastest Porsche is...ProSpeed in forth. (Holzer)

     

     

     

     

     

     

     


    Re: Special Livery for Flying Lizard's First Two-Porsche Le Mans Program

    Well, that was the end of the first day. I suppose the less said , the better.

    I sincerely hope that there is some midnight oil burning at Weissach because the old mule just aint cutting the mustard any longer.

     So sad to see a once proud and dominant manufacturer at this great race, limping around in the lesser classes, and even then unable to challenge the top dogs in that class.

    For us fans - its going to be a long,long race (or on second thoughts and judging from the first days performance, maybe not so long after all)

    Lets see what today brings.

     


    Re: Special Livery for Flying Lizard's First Two-Porsche Le Mans Program

    According the times I've seen, Prospeed is the quickest of the Porsches and is lagging 1.5 secs behind the fastest BMW, right? In 7th place that is .

    Do you have any news on the crash of the number 1 Audi against the Gulf Aston?


    Re: Special Livery for Flying Lizard's First Two-Porsche Le Mans Program

    Correct Porker. Holzer is the man! Now, I know that the Porsche teams are not focusing (too much) on a qualifying time, but these times show that if the Porsche begin to have problems (which they seem to be having with alarming frequency) then they don't stand a hope in hell of catching up again with the opposition. On the other hand , the taxicabs , Vettes and donkeys have shown that if they suffer a slight derailment during the race, they have the pace to be right back at the front.

    I have no further news on the Audi/Aston crash , but I'll do some investigating and let you know what I learn.


    Re: Special Livery for Flying Lizard's First Two-Porsche Le Mans Program

    Many thanks!

    Regarding the pace of our beloved 997's, the Corvette is an ageing model (although less so in ZR1 trim) too, but it seems to have the pace, an issue of waivers again?


    Re: Special Livery for Flying Lizard's First Two-Porsche Le Mans Program

    "There's no replacement for displacement"


    Re: Special Livery for Flying Lizard's First Two-Porsche Le Mans Program

    I thought they were called 'restrictors'? Smiley


    Re: Special Livery for Flying Lizard's First Two-Porsche Le Mans Program

    OK I have some very interesting data for analysis!

    Believe it or not, the #77Felbermayr Porsche reached the highest top speed (for GTE-Pro) on the straight (291.1 kph). second was the #74 Vette with the same speed (must have been a couple of hundreds slower) and in third was the #55 BMW (291.1).1307608213820yikes.gif

     

    I am analyzing the data, but it appears that #77 is loosing all its time on the Porsche curves (how ironic) . I'll confirm this in a few minutes.


    Re: Special Livery for Flying Lizard's First Two-Porsche Le Mans Program

    Very sad news. Any reason why this is happening?


    --


    RT Moderator 
    - 997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm sports suspension/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


    Re: Special Livery for Flying Lizard's First Two-Porsche Le Mans Program

    Ok  - here goes: The fastest Porsche is slower than the fastest car in every sector. Sector1 the fastest Porsche (which ever it is in that particular sector) is loosing 0.634 of a second . Interestingly enough the fastest Porsche in Sector 2 looses 0.776seconds to the fastest car in that sector. (more on this later) and finally the fastest Porsche in sector 3 looses 0.617to the fastest car in that sector.

    Now - the same comparison done but with the #77 Porsche vs the Fastest Car in each sector provides us with a similar result. #77 looses 0.634in Sector 1, 0.776 in Sector 2 and 0.95 in Sector 3(wow!)

    The interesting thing about sector 2 is that includes the zone from Tertre Rouge down to Mulsanne Corner (so it encompasses the long straight). now given that the #77 posts the highest top speed through the speed traps and yet manages to loose 0.776 of second in the whole sector indicates that there is not a good balance between high straight-linespeed and low speed corners. The Porsches are loosing time in T6, T7 , the Porsche curves ( a whole 0.8 seconds here) and 0.4 second in the Ford chicane.

    I expect that they will work on the necessary setup changes today.

     

    Just out of curiosity: the #51 458 (Bruni) was so fast through the Ford Chicane that it was the 8th quickest of all the cars, beating some of the Peugeot's through the chicane! Wow! I hope Porsche is taking note! They need to work very, very,very,very hard on their future 458 and MC12 beater.


    Re: Special Livery for Flying Lizard's First Two-Porsche Le Mans Program

    Small correction : The top speed reached by the #77 Porsche through the speed traps was 291.9 and not 291.1 as i wrote above. so the Porsche and the Vettes were fastest with 291.9 and the BMW was third with 291.1.


    Re: Special Livery for Flying Lizard's First Two-Porsche Le Mans Program

    Thanks for your interesting -and depressing- analysis!


    Re: Special Livery for Flying Lizard's First Two-Porsche Le Mans Program

    Spyderidol:

    Now, I know that the Porsche teams are not focusing (too much) on a qualifying time, but these times show that if the Porsche begin to have problems (which they seem to be having with alarming frequency) then they don't stand a hope in hell of catching up again with the opposition. On the other hand , the taxicabs , Vettes and donkeys have shown that if they suffer a slight derailment during the race, they have the pace to be right back at the front.

    I have no further news on the Audi/Aston crash , but I'll do some investigating and let you know what I learn.


    Very interested how the Porsche will fare during the race. All of the serious contenders can provide a sprintrace-equalling pace so I assume that Porsche will focus on treating the car conservatively. How fast do they eat up the rear tires nowadays, especially compared to the competitors? I still have high hopes that they will perform in a respectable way but agree that a win is slightly further off this time.

    Romain Dumas crashed into the Aston which itself spun at the exit of a corner. Dumas stated that he was not shown any yellow flags.


    Re: Special Livery for Flying Lizard's First Two-Porsche Le Mans Program

    The rear tires should not be so much of an issue at Le Mans. The week points (at least in some of the longer races) seems to be the clutch and gearbox. Occasionally there are also oil fires.

    It seems that Porsche are looking (and rightly so) to match the top speeds of the BMW's and Vettes and as a result are giving up speed on the twisty bits of the track . Now there are not many twisties at Le Mans, but one has to be so much quicker than the opposition on the straights if you are prepared to loose the time in the corners.

    My concern is that although Porsche have the top speed, they may  be lacking in the torque department , and therefore although they actually reach a higher top-speed than the opposition, it may be taking them longer to actually get there. therefore in order to compensate for a lack of torque, they are setting up the cars for lower down-force (not to loose top speed) and thus are in turn loosing grip in the corners.

    Anyway, this is just my paranoid analysis. Lets see what this eavening brings. We will know by tomorrow.

     


    Re: Special Livery for Flying Lizard's First Two-Porsche Le Mans Program

     

      Weight (Kg) 2 Restrictors (mm)
    Car Base  Adjustment Current Base  Adjustment Current
    Porsche GT3 RSR 1245   1245 28.6 0.3 28.9
    Ferrari F430 1245   1245 28.6   28.6
    Ferrari F458 1245   1245 28.3   28.3
    Corvette C6R 1245   1245 27.9 0.9 28.8
    BMW M3 (Europe) 1245   1245 28.6 1.2 29.8
    BMW M3 (USA) 1245   1245 28.6 0.8 29.4
    Aston Martin Vantage 1245 -50 1195 28.3 1.4 29.7
    Spyker 1245 -50 1195 28.6   28.6
    Jaguar 1245   1245 29.5 1.4 30.9
    Ford GT 1245   1245 28.1 1.2 29.3
    Lotus Evora 1245 -50 1195 28.6 1.4 30

     

    Here are some of the Performance Balancing Measures that the ACO have taken this year.

    Note: The bigger the restrictor , the more air the engine gets and therefore more power.


    Re: Special Livery for Flying Lizard's First Two-Porsche Le Mans Program

    These were posted on another forum by a "old friend" of mine, and they illustrate the difference between the engine location of the M3 road car and the M3 that is running at Le Mans.

    844127108_XaiCX-L.jpg

    bmw-m3-e90-engine-s65b40.jpg


    Re: Special Livery for Flying Lizard's First Two-Porsche Le Mans Program

    Impressive difference! On the other hand, its competitors have pure bred sportscars as a base already, so I guess it's only fair?


    Re: Special Livery for Flying Lizard's First Two-Porsche Le Mans Program

    Quite a few spins at today´s qualfiying session. Andy Priaulx just spun out one of the BMWs and significantly damaged the front.


    Re: Special Livery for Flying Lizard's First Two-Porsche Le Mans Program

     Oh My goodness! Flying Lizard's rotten luck at Le Mans continues.

     

     


    Re: Special Livery for Flying Lizard's First Two-Porsche Le Mans Program

    Every source of info/streams put together on one site

    http://globalsportsstream.webs.com/Lemans.htm


    Re: Special Livery for Flying Lizard's First Two-Porsche Le Mans Program

    Porker:

    Impressive difference! On the other hand, its competitors have pure bred sportscars as a base already, so I guess it's only fair?

    Not really. The rules for GTE are 99.9% the same as the rules for old GT2. The idea behind the GTE/GT2 rules was/is that the cars in this class would be "slightly modified" versions of their homologated street versions. The BMW is everything  but that!

    Now - either the rules apply to everyone, or they don't. If they don't then there is no point in having rules in the first place.

    This is why I am absolutely against waivers.(even when given to Porsche)

     

    BTW - Apparently the 458 has a waiver because of its width.(it does not comply with the width stipulated in the rules).

    The ACO will always justify the usage of waivers as necessary o guarantee car counts and participation of the different marques. This is nonsense! Write the goddamn rules correctly in the first place and there should be no necessity for waivers! 

     


    Re: Special Livery for Flying Lizard's First Two-Porsche Le Mans Program

    Around LM circuit in a Carrera 4S


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Special Livery for Flying Lizard's First Two-Porsche Le Mans Program

    Well ,Qualifying is over.

    It continues to be so sad to see a marque that once inspired fear and respect in the opposition reduced to just another runner. The press  can only comment on the artwork of the cars and occasionally on the great driver line-up. The cars themselves are rarely ever mentioned. There is very little to comment on. It's like watching a once young and brave gladiator now reduced to limping around the circus maximus trying desperately not to get eaten by the creatures that  have been created and developed by the other newer Caesars. Perhaps the price to pay of a strategy that focuses mainly on short-term balance sheet results? Some will say that it is to be expected as its the end of a production model and another is coming soon. Hmm. Seems a reasonable argument. - But then one looks at Ferrari and how they managed to keep the 430 very competitive (still is) whilst they introduced a racing version of the 458 in the same year that the road version was introduced. Not only have they kept Ferrari motorsport reputation intact (and the brand image flying in motorsports) they have also cornered the market as privateers are lined up to buy the 458 and Micheletto cant build them fast enough.

    I sit here and reflect with much sadness on my youth when I could not wait for my dad to receive the Christophrus so that I could marvel (and dream) at the pages and pages of motorsport articles and  action pictures of the latest 908,917, Moby Dick or what ever the flavor of the current period. Today the magazine is littered with travel articles and /or features on the latest special edition that this once great motorsports marque is peddling.

    Today I am sad and disappointed. Tomorrow maybe a better day. Unfortunately , from where I am sitting, the future does not look at all promising. If I could ask for one thing, I would ask to once again witness the rebirth of this once great and all conquering marque (that even got rules changed and actually killed off entire series) and watch it achieve again the dizzy heights that was once such familiar territory to it.

    Life is made of pipe-dreams.

     


    Re: Special Livery for Flying Lizard's First Two-Porsche Le Mans Program

    Motorsport goes in cycles like other forms of sport. IMO the 997 Motorsport models have finished their cycle after a very illustrious career. The field is more up to date now with the 458s and the BMWs whilst Porsche has reached a plateau in its development. Other new entrants like Aston and Lotus are even lower than Porsche with newer models.

    In the GTE A they still have a good chance.

    Why haven't Porsche run a GT Hybrid?  At least they could win a category and generate some interest, in this way. Are there no rules for Hybrids at the 24H du Mans?


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Special Livery for Flying Lizard's First Two-Porsche Le Mans Program

    Spyderidol:

    Well ,Qualifying is over.

    It continues to be so sad to see a marque that once inspired fear and respect in the opposition reduced to just another runner. The press  can only comment on the artwork of the cars and occasionally on the great driver line-up. The cars themselves are rarely ever mentioned. There is very little to comment on. It's like watching a once young and brave gladiator now reduced to limping around the circus maximus trying desperately not to get eaten by the creatures that  have been created and developed by the other newer Caesars. Perhaps the price to pay of a strategy that focuses mainly on short-term balance sheet results? Some will say that it is to be expected as its the end of a production model and another is coming soon. Hmm. Seems a reasonable argument. - But then one looks at Ferrari and how they managed to keep the 430 very competitive (still is) whilst they introduced a racing version of the 458 in the same year that the road version was introduced. Not only have they kept Ferrari motorsport reputation intact (and the brand image flying in motorsports) they have also cornered the market as privateers are lined up to buy the 458 and Micheletto cant build them fast enough.

    I sit here and reflect with much sadness on my youth when I could not wait for my dad to receive the Christophrus so that I could marvel (and dream) at the pages and pages of motorsport articles and  action pictures of the latest 908,917, Moby Dick or what ever the flavor of the current period. Today the magazine is littered with travel articles and /or features on the latest special edition that this once great motorsports marque is peddling.

    Today I am sad and disappointed. Tomorrow maybe a better day. Unfortunately , from where I am sitting, the future does not look at all promising. If I could ask for one thing, I would ask to once again witness the rebirth of this once great and all conquering marque (that even got rules changed and actually killed off entire series) and watch it achieve again the dizzy heights that was once such familiar territory to it.

    Life is made of pipe-dreams.

     

     

    Well written !!! SmileySmiley

    Since 1998 I ´m waiting with a trip to the race, because Porsche does not have a car for P1.Smiley

    Looks like I have to wait some more years...

    Blueflame Smiley


     
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