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    Re: Where'd that 50 miles on the ODOMETER come from?

    Balloonmeister, thanks, love these posts about the factory inner workings. More of the same, please.

    Is it true that ONE engine builder, with ONE Apprentice assisting, constructs EACH entire engine from start to finish? that the Apprentice cannot become the master engine builder until they have done 7 years as Apprentice? Might be Ferry Folklore I dunno, but I have heard that.

    Re: Where'd that 50 miles on the ODOMETER come from?

    All car manufacturers pull a percentage of cars at random for road testing, to help ensure quality control and to catch potential problems before thousands of cars are already in delivery. Ford, for instance, puts a sticker/notice in the window where they inform you that the car was randomly selected and "test driven", and they write in the amount of miles they placed on the vehicle with a pen. My 1993 Cobra that I special-ordered new had 55 miles written onto the tag, and was delivered with 58 miles on the clock. The sticker is still in the window, along with all the other stickers and marks and wrappings, as I've never unwrapped the car, and it's only got 65 miles on it today!! Good thing they tested it!! LOL!!!

    Re: Where'd that 50 miles on the ODOMETER come from?

    Quote:
    69bossnine said:
    All car manufacturers pull a percentage of cars at random for road testing, to help ensure quality control and to catch potential problems before thousands of cars are already in delivery. Ford, for instance, puts a sticker/notice in the window where they inform you that the car was randomly selected and "test driven", and they write in the amount of miles they placed on the vehicle with a pen. My 1993 Cobra that I special-ordered new had 55 miles written onto the tag, and was delivered with 58 miles on the clock. The sticker is still in the window, along with all the other stickers and marks and wrappings, as I've never unwrapped the car, and it's only got 65 miles on it today!! Good thing they tested it!! LOL!!!



    This Cobra you put 7 miles in 12 years!!?? NOt the same vehicle as your Saleen 500 horsepower beast , is it? Regardless, that is a museum piece. To each his own, some enjoy driving, some relish the bejeweled time capsule I suppose. What will you do with it?

    If I may digress briefly,
    my dad was fortunate enough back in 1970 to buy a (one of 39 built, 33 surviving) Ferrari GTO for $7000. when GTOs were just tired old retired race cars....15 or 20 years before Ferrari GTO's became 7 and 8 $$figured toys of Ralph Lauren and Nick Mason, et al.

    He drove the GTO to work everyday for a couple of years--100 dB racing exhaust, no windows or interior and all!

    These days, everyone goes apoplectic when half-a-dozen GTOs show up together at Pebble Beach. Pops sold the GTO in late '80's, market was up nicely but not nearly as high as it would eventually go....so you never know what will happen with sports cars and nostalgia.

    Re: Where'd that 50 miles on the ODOMETER come from?

    Quote:
    Damian said:
    Quote:
    69bossnine said:
    All car manufacturers pull a percentage of cars at random for road testing, to help ensure quality control and to catch potential problems before thousands of cars are already in delivery. Ford, for instance, puts a sticker/notice in the window where they inform you that the car was randomly selected and "test driven", and they write in the amount of miles they placed on the vehicle with a pen. My 1993 Cobra that I special-ordered new had 55 miles written onto the tag, and was delivered with 58 miles on the clock. The sticker is still in the window, along with all the other stickers and marks and wrappings, as I've never unwrapped the car, and it's only got 65 miles on it today!! Good thing they tested it!! LOL!!!



    This Cobra you put 7 miles in 12 years!!?? NOt the same vehicle as your Saleen 500 horsepower beast , is it? Regardless, that is a museum piece. To each his own, some enjoy driving, some relish the bejeweled time capsule I suppose. What will you do with it?

    If I may digress briefly,
    my dad was fortunate enough back in 1970 to buy a (one of 39 built, 33 surviving) Ferrari GTO for $7000. when GTOs were just tired old retired race cars....15 or 20 years before Ferrari GTO's became 7 and 8 $$figured toys of Ralph Lauren and Nick Mason, et al.

    He drove the GTO to work everyday for a couple of years--100 dB racing exhaust, no windows or interior and all!

    These days, everyone goes apoplectic when half-a-dozen GTOs show up together at Pebble Beach. Pops sold the GTO in late '80's, market was up nicely but not nearly as high as it would eventually go....so you never know what will happen with sports cars and nostalgia.



    Actually, in pure coincidence, I just popped the 506 h.p. '97 Saleen S351 out this morning for a 80 mile round-trip exercise to my chiropractor (carpal tunnel). I had not driven it since January. This afternoon I'll wipe her back down, and park her back on the carpet. I daily-drove that car for a year, and then occasional-drove it for several more, so it's got 21,000-plus miles on it. But it doesn't have a mark on it, and the engine compartment and undercarriage is full-boat-detailed as-new. It's a keeper that I'll keep forever, and exercise occassionally as I do so it's always in fighting form. The '93 Cobra was a car that I ordered as a daily driver, but Ford encountered delay after delay after delay in getting those produced. I ordered it in September '92, and it wasn't delivered until June of '93. So in February of '93 I got sick of waiting (I had no daily driver, which meant my prized fully-restored '69 Mach 1 was playing "stand-in") and I bought a new 6-speed '93 Corvette. When the Cobra finally arrived, I drove it once, decided that the Corvette was a ton more car, and plopped the Cobra into our car collection (at my dad's prompting and support), where many other "in-the-wrapper" cars are being saved as benchmarks for posterity, and to assist people in future restorations. Sounds crazy to not drive a car, but in a way, it's a gift to the hobby years from now when folks are restoring these cars and have our stuff to use for reference and benchmarking.

    Absolutely wonderful story on the GTO...

    Re: Where'd that 50 miles on the ODOMETER come from?

    Quote:
    69bossnine said:
    Sounds crazy to not drive a car, but in a way, it's a gift to the hobby years from now when folks are restoring these cars and have our stuff to use for reference and benchmarking.




    I've never thought of it that way. Thank you. I have more respect now for collectors.

    Re: Where'd that 50 miles on the ODOMETER come from?

    Quote:
    69bossnine said:
    1. Tired subject

    2. The owner's manual is conservative, and just a "guideline", not a warranty-breaker, not even CLOSE..

    3. If it were so damn important, Porsche would demand that all dealer "test-drive" cars be broken in fully by an authorized tech before any hot-foot test-driver be allowed behind the wheel. They don't demand that. They beat the daylights out of the dealer demo models, and then they sell them to the public, with full warranty and a smile. And according to my dealer's master tech with 25 years experience, he's NEVER seen any pattern of ex-demo-models having mechanical failure or wear that's any different than privately ordered and purchased vehicles. According to him, "forget the 1st 2,000 miles, it's the way the owner treats it for the ensuing 100,000+ miles that really shows up...".

    Spoken like a true prodigy.

    I worked for a VW/Porsche dealer while I was going through high school and college in the 60's and early 70's and after college worked for a BMW dealer from 1971 to 2001 before retiring and not once did I ever see a warranty claim denied because the "break-in" procedure was not followed. The only time I ever saw a warranty claim due to an improper break-in was when the car was babied and the rings were never allowed to properly seat and the factory still honored the claim.

    When I test drove a C2 Cab at my dealer, after engine warm up I was allowed to rev the car as high as I wanted (odo showed less than 20 miles when we started the test drive) and when I was at PDE we red-lined the cars in 3rd gear on a regular basis on the second day (odo showed less than 600 miles).

    I think the only ones that are overly concerned about following the factory break-in procedure can be found on an automobile enthusiast forum. The dealers, manufacturers and general public don't seem to be too concerned and neither am I.

    Re: No breaking in necessary for 997?

    Quote:
    TheOldMan said:
    There are many opinions about break in. It is a very subjective topic. I am no expert, but I have broken in a few cars and motorcycles over time. Years ago, when it came to performance bikes, the expression was, break it in fast and it will run fast, break it in slow, and it will run slow. With that said....

    In my opinion...

    The owners manual is not wrong. There are many good suggestions that should be followed. It would be prudent to follow the instructions. However, there are degrees of freedom that the manual just does not deal with. One is the mileage and the other is the rev limit.

    I would suggest that the breakin period is less than the quoted 3000km/2000miles. My dealer stated that the real breakin period is 1/2 the quoted numbers. It is my opinion as well that the manual is probably conservative in this regard and that the car can be safely driven harder after the first 1500km. Maybe not crazy hard, but harder than the manual would lead you to believe.

    The other is the RPM limit. I do not believe that you will cause damage to exceed the RPM limit occasionaly during the break in period if the oil is at operating temperature (90C) and you are not taking it to the limit.

    The engine/drivetrain does not magically change at 3000km or 2000 miles to make it able to go faster without damage. It is an evolving process of wear and adjustment of all the mechanical parts. And as such the car can be driven progressively harder with each passing mile.

    Years ago I had the pleasure of managing a team of people involved in technical documentation. The teams consisted of engineers, lawyers, writers, marketing and business people. The discussions were heated and colorful. One thing is clear from that experience, the technical printed word is an opinion of compromise and not absolute fact. Nuances and exceptions to the general/basic rule never make it to the manual.

    Just remember, take it easy until the oil is at operating temperature.



    A break-in period makes good sense. There will never be any goo evidence to support or refute its necessity, so this will continue to be an unresolved issue. To me, it is resolved sufficiently by the knowledge that it makes good sense, and by exactly what The Old Man wrote above. There seems little more to say on this topic.

    Re: No breaking in necessary for 997?

    When I collected my car earlier in the month, the dealer told me it's not necessary to run the car in. He said and I quote, "just take it easy for the first 200 or so miles, to let the brakes and tyre's bed in".

    Re: No breaking in necessary for 997?

    Quote:
    ResB said:
    When I collected my car earlier in the month, the dealer told me it's not necessary to run the car in. He said and I quote, "just take it easy for the first 200 or so miles, to let the brakes and tyre's bed in".




    If you could tabulate what every dealer tells their customers, you'd probably get as many answers as there are dealers.

    I suggest using common sense here, and The Old Man laid some nice common sense out very well in his previous post.

    Re: No breaking in necessary for 997?

    Although, I believe there are a lot of valued opinions here, I have to object to one: "the dealer said"; for the most part, what do the dealers really know? Hint: Typically, not much.

    Re: No breaking in necessary for 997?

    Quote:
    JL13 said:
    I really don't know anything about it the manual say that it should be broken in correctly but my friend claims that it is not necessary to break in an engine because it is already broken in. I am sure that if they really do break in the engine, there must be a way for them to do so so that it won't be such a hassle for them.




    Ask your friend if he will pay for any repairs to the engine ( just in case Porsche denies your warranty )

    Remember , with the onboard computer they have the entire operating history of your engine at their disposal.

    Re: No breaking in necessary for 997?

    Are we STILL on this topic?

    Porsche doesn't street test all their cars anymore. Not like they used to. Porsche used to be very proud to say that you couldn't buy any zero mile cars as they all got street tested, along with whatever time they did dyno work on them in the engine build area. Most of my mechanic friends (many with a lot of time with Porsche) have suggested that I not get too wrapped up with any paranoia on 'breaking it in.' Just observe common sense with a proper warm up and then drive the car. The manual specifically states to not let the engine labor or lug the engine (even after breakin) and that you should let the parts adjust to each other by means of a few conservative driving measures for the first 2000 miles. They specifically state: "Do not participate in motor racing events, sports driving schools, etc. during the first 2000 miles/3000 kilometers." After that go for it!

    Dan

    Re: No breaking in necessary for 997?

    Who keeps playing the cruel joke of bumping these threads back to the top??

    BTW, I highly doubt Porsche would "deny your warranty" based on ANY data, unless maybe it showed that you actually did participate in a long and abusive track event, or drove the car for a couple hours as if you were in a race, which would probably land you on the evening news being chased by a police helicopter.

    Use some common sense for chrisake... If they were in the practice of pulling your warranty due to ignoring the break-in spiel, that would effectively doom ALL dealer demo cars to voided warranties, as all the dealers and test drivers wring the living pi$$ out of those cars....

    Besides, the typical ill-effects that could be caused by abusing the engine when it was new won't show up within the warranty period..... they'll show up as a knock or oil consumption 100,000 miles down the road, in the hands of some poor 2nd or 3rd owner who had no idea how the original owner hammered the car when new.

    Also, if it's the cars that are beaten on during their supposed break-in period that always had early-life mechanical issues, don't you think it would be the Porsche service techs that would see them?? Those very same techs that will tell you straight to your face "that break-in procedure is overkill"... Doesn't really add up, now does it?? And if Porsche denied coverage due to failure to comply to break-in, don't you think the techs and the service managers would know of such unfortunate incidents, and tell you about that, instead of carelessly telling you to just "go have fun" (like the master tech of over 25 years experience said to me before I drove off the lot), in the interest of not having an angry customer come after them with a baseball bat for giving them lousy advise that wound up lunching their motor, and sticking the customer with the repair bill??

    Again, it just doesn't add up, does it???

    Do you think the yellow GT3 in KF's video was "broken in" prior to being offered up for absolute flogging? Puhleez...

    Do you think that Porsche re-engines, or just crushes, all of the press cars they dole-out around the world, because they were beaten like redheaded stepchildren from 10 miles onward, and they would therefore be denied warranty coverage, or be any kind of mechanical embarrassment? Ummmm, NO, that doesn't happen.


    Let's please stop talking about break-in. It's all too often like eunuchs discussing sex.

    A thoughtful break-in "may" extend the life of your car's engine, and that's a good thing. I myself took her easy for the first thou', as I intend to keep my car quite a long time.

    But conversely, if there's something amiss in the assembly or machining of any component in your motor, it's going to rear its ugly head, probably within the 1st 10,000 miles, REGARDLESS of how you broke the car in.

    And that's my rant for June!!! Glad I could get it off my chest...

    Re: Where'd that 50 miles on the ODOMETER come from?

    In the old days rumor had it that Porsche runs the engines on a stand equivalant of 500 miles and then installs them in the cars. Right or wrong I break my car in my way. The 1st 1000 miles gentle and not much over 4200 and after that I rev it up to high rpm but only for short period of time until 2000 miles is reached. However during the 2nd 1000 mile I will get on it here and there even red line shortly and after 2000 miles red line as often as necessary without abusing the car.

    Your mileage may vary

    a) Some folks live by 3000 or 5000 mile break-in
    b) Others drive it like they stole it
    c) Research (which you may discount) suggests after the first few minutes the engine is broken in

    No amount of discussion here will change your mind. Personally, I subscribe to (c) and therefore (b).

    Re: Your mileage may vary


     
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