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    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    It is the king of daily drivers, always was. No use to compare them to a GT3 or even an R. Every dream garage should have both kiss 


    --

    997.2 & Donkervoort GT 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    spudgun:

    It is the king of daily drivers, always was. No use to compare them to a GT3 or even an R. Every dream garage should have both kiss 

    Fully agreed, especially the 991.2 Turbo S is daily driver super sportscar perfection. The word "perfection" however is what creates a problem for this car...it should not only offer perfection but a bit more emotions. Maybe Porsche thinks that both at the same time aren't compatible?! Smiley Smiley

    What drives me a little bit mad in this: I know the guys who developed the car and I know that they would have loved to add some pepper to the mix but current environmental/sound regulations and some people in the higher hierarchy at Porsche made it impossible for them. Smiley They engineered a wonderful "pop-off" sound into the car (991.1 Turbo S) but it didn't get the green light, only one example.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    Lukas:

    I'm actually considering ordering a 991.2 Turbo S and have been on the fence for a while. The understaded look really appeals to me so other supercars are of non interest. I will use the car for daily driving when I don't need to carry stuff so it will be much more than a weekend toy for me. Will also drive it during winter time so the 4wd comes in handy.

    Then, the 991.2 Turbo S will serve you very well. Smiley

    On the fence about if I should get body painted stuff (side skirts, air intake, etc). When looking at the car I actually prefer the looks without these areas painted, but I'm not sure yes. I've always loved GT-silver, but also considering Night Blue Metallic which I think is a really elegant/classy colour. If I go with GT-silver I will not get the black LED front-lights (think it looks a bit panda with the black lights?). If I change to Night blue, I will get the blacked out headlights. I've also ditched the carbon interior and replaced it with leather since I don't like carbon (it's too shiny for my taste)... A bit uncertain about Power Steering+. It is difficult to find one without to test drive. But since it's a softwrare change I get it in my spec and if I don't like it then I can just disable it rather simple at my dealership. I also wonder if I should get the lift-system? Didn't have it on my former 991 Carrera S and never thought the car was too low,  but...

    Here is my current build. Thoughts?
    http://www.porsche-code.com/PHG7J5U6

    Looks good, a bit more on the comfy side but I guess this is what you wanted. If you are using your car in winter or on bad roads often, the lift may come in handy. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    Thanks RC. Yes, it's on the comfy side, but still no sporty options left out. Maybe adding a bit of weight with these extras, but that is probably managable indecision

    I will think it over a bit and see how I decide to proceed. It is crazy times when you wobble between ordering a Panamera Turbo and then the next day specing a 911 Turbo S smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    Lukas:

    Thanks RC. Yes, it's on the comfy side, but still no sporty options left out. Maybe adding a bit of weight with these extras, but that is probably managable indecision

    I will think it over a bit and see how I decide to proceed. It is crazy times when you wobble between ordering a Panamera Turbo and then the next day specing a 911 Turbo S smiley

    A Panamera Turbo as a single car (instead of a Panamera S Diesel and a Turbo S) would probably make more sense for you but... Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:
    Lukas:

    Thanks RC. Yes, it's on the comfy side, but still no sporty options left out. Maybe adding a bit of weight with these extras, but that is probably managable indecision

    I will think it over a bit and see how I decide to proceed. It is crazy times when you wobble between ordering a Panamera Turbo and then the next day specing a 911 Turbo S smiley

    A Panamera Turbo as a single car (instead of a Panamera S Diesel and a Turbo S) would probably make more sense for you but... Smiley Smiley

    Only problem with the Panamera Turbo is the size of the thing. A lot of city driving, parking in narrow streets and so on makes it just not a good alternative... And to some extent I feel a bit too young  (late thirties) for the Panamera type of car. This is why the 911 is more appealing. I enjoy my Macan Turbo right now and the size is just perfect for my needs. But we'll see what I end up with in the end. A Macan with 500hp and the new Panamera interior and new tech would be perfect Smiley. A shame that Porsche does not offer that car Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    The Macan gets an overhaul once the next gen Cayenne is on the market...

    Yes, a 500 hp V8 Macan would have been my dream SUV but Porsche just doesn't listen... yes angry

    Anyway: For the city, I started to enjoy driving my Mini JCW. Fast and powerful for the city and with a good sound system (important when I drive to work and back home). When the weather is nice, I use my GTS Cab. When the weather sucks (or I need to park in the city and I don't want scratches on my car and/or need to find a parking space), I use the Mini.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    I am planning to tune my Macan to at least 450hp when GIAC gets the software out. Dealer will do it.

    RC, my wife wants to upgrade our 9 year old mini convertible. We will do auto box this time. Do you think the extra $6k is worth it for the JCW? We don't want the sport supension (you can have the JCW with the S supension for free) and the JCW is only 0.3s faster 0-60... This car would be driven less than 2k miles a year.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    SciFrog:

    I am planning to tune my Macan to at least 450hp when GIAC gets the software out. Dealer will do it.

    RC, my wife wants to upgrade our 9 year old mini convertible. We will do auto box this time. Do you think the extra $6k is worth it for the JCW? We don't want the sport supension (you can have the JCW with the S supension for free) and the JCW is only 0.3s faster 0-60... This car would be driven less than 2k miles a year.

    To be honest: I had a Cooper S (new model as well) for a couple of days and I didn't notice much difference. Oh well, maybe the steering was a bit more direct (and felt "heavier") and the brake was a bit better ("better" as in firmer brake feel) but for an extra 6k? I don't think so. I got the JCW because my dealer was driving it as "his" car and I liked the color combo and the options the car had, it was just perfect. Offer was also pretty good, so I took it.

    Get the Harman/Kardon HiFi system, it is quite OK (almost as good as Burmester in the Macan, no kidding and way better than BOSE), if your wife loves music.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    Thank you, will go for a loaded S convertible...


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    SciFrog:

    I am planning to tune my Macan to at least 450hp when GIAC gets the software out. Dealer will do it.

    Have you considered the newly released COBB tune for Macan Turbo? They have very good reputation with their AccessPort ECU tuning.

    Take a look here:
    http://www.cobbtuning.com/porsche-macan-accessport-now-available/


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

     
     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    From GCF:


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    From GCF: Just a quick comment before a more detailed summary to come later in the week : car has been tested with standard P Zero on the circuit. Test driver assumes it can cut up to two seconds with Trofeo R or Michelin Sport Cup 2.

    Quick translation of main items.
    Christophe Tinseau
    Suspension too soft compared to a pure track car like GT3 : too much body movement.
    Strong acceleration in straight line.
    Tyres are OK but dedicated track tyres like on GT3 would help improve laptime.
    Standard seats not supportive enough for track usage.
    Excellent brakes.
    Bad track conditions : cold and apparently damp or at least humid / a few tenths of second could be gained if tested another day.
    Main article
    Impressive accelaration times (0-100in 2.8 sec, 0.1 less than Aventador). 0-400m in 10.5 sec, same than McLaren 650S.
    Too much body movement, even with active antiroll feature.
    Much faster car than it seems => lack of sensations.
    Measured power lower than expected, same situation for Phase 1 of the Turbo. No real explanation.
    Good steering. Very stable at high speed (active aerodynamics).

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    totally pointless......Turbo S is not ment to compete with a GT3 or 650S. It's the only car that can be driven 12 month....(for those who have a winter....) - Imagine a test - rain & dry - and put the times together......


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    Um, any exotic can be driven 12 months if you just put snow tires on it. Wet and snow lap times would be irrelevant because no one in their right mind would try to drive fast in rain/snow.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    well - u clearly live in LA :) Most of us here in Europe and specially Switzerland - rain-capability is a big must. Most of my cars are on Semi's and they are horrible in the wet compared to a normal Sport tire. To be able to drive in the rain is a huge Thing here and the GT3 and Mac are totally different animal in the wet to a TurboS....(and no there are not a lot of snow tires for exotics...nor does it make sense....)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    Don't drive with semi-slicks then. MPSS work perfectly fine in the rain.

    All exotics have a winter option as far as I know. Hell, McLaren's even have a Winter mode. The Turbo S will drive like shit in the snow as well if you put it on semi-slicks. I had an R8 on R888s and it was impossible to drive in the snow at all. Was able to drive in the rain just fine though.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    noone1:

    Um, any exotic can be driven 12 months if you just put snow tires on it. Wet and snow lap times would be irrelevant because no one in their right mind would try to drive fast in rain/snow.

    That comment tells me that you know nothing about driving an exotic 12 months in a country with full 4 seasons. It's not a matter of just taking your car out as it snows heavily and its -5 - 10 degrees C and posting some instagrams "a Ferrari/McLaren in the winter...how cool". It's feeling safe and secure, not caring about traction and ground clearance. And in the case of the Turbo S...being faster and safer than any other car, including the SUV's.

    With the Turbo S I've completely stopped driving the RS6 even in the winter and never reach for the Cayenne Turbo. No sane person that I know gets to drive his Ferrari in the conditions that I drive my TTS in the winter. I would own a Ferrari, Lambo etc. only as an addition to the TTS. In no way I would consider to replace it with anything else as an everyday, every season sports car.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    You have these cars in the maldives? Doesn't one need boats & small planes there? Don't mean to offend, just asking....Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    Herbaliser:
    noone1:

    Um, any exotic can be driven 12 months if you just put snow tires on it. Wet and snow lap times would be irrelevant because no one in their right mind would try to drive fast in rain/snow.

    That comment tells me that you know nothing about driving an exotic 12 months in a country with full 4 seasons. It's not a matter of just taking your car out as it snows heavily and its -5 - 10 degrees C and posting some instagrams "a Ferrari/McLaren in the winter...how cool". It's feeling safe and secure, not caring about traction and ground clearance. And in the case of the Turbo S...being faster and safer than any other car, including the SUV's.

    With the Turbo S I've completely stopped driving the RS6 even in the winter and never reach for the Cayenne Turbo. No sane person that I know gets to drive his Ferrari in the conditions that I drive my TTS in the winter. I would own a Ferrari, Lambo etc. only as an addition to the TTS. In no way I would consider to replace it with anything else as an everyday, every season sports car.

    Um, I've been driving in slush and snow and thunderstorms all my life. We have 4 real seasons. The only reason I don't put snow tires on an exotic and drive it in the snow is not because it's unsafe or fear of clearance, it's because there are a million other people on the road who drive like idiots and I don't like depreciating my car by $30K just because someone in a $5K shitmobile forgets how to drive every Winter and hits me.

    There is absolutely no upside to driving an exotic in the snow because:

    a) You don't use the performance
    b) The risk of being hit by someone is vastly higher
    c) They use salt in many places in the US


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    Upsa:

    You have these cars in the maldives? Doesn't one need boats & small planes there? Don't mean to offend, just asking....Smiley

    I am just spiritually there :) If I was living there my sports "car" would probably be a Donzi ZR43...


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    noone1:
    Herbaliser:
    noone1:

    Um, any exotic can be driven 12 months if you just put snow tires on it. Wet and snow lap times would be irrelevant because no one in their right mind would try to drive fast in rain/snow.

    That comment tells me that you know nothing about driving an exotic 12 months in a country with full 4 seasons. It's not a matter of just taking your car out as it snows heavily and its -5 - 10 degrees C and posting some instagrams "a Ferrari/McLaren in the winter...how cool". It's feeling safe and secure, not caring about traction and ground clearance. And in the case of the Turbo S...being faster and safer than any other car, including the SUV's.

    With the Turbo S I've completely stopped driving the RS6 even in the winter and never reach for the Cayenne Turbo. No sane person that I know gets to drive his Ferrari in the conditions that I drive my TTS in the winter. I would own a Ferrari, Lambo etc. only as an addition to the TTS. In no way I would consider to replace it with anything else as an everyday, every season sports car.

    Um, I've been driving in slush and snow and thunderstorms all my life. We have 4 real seasons. The only reason I don't put snow tires on an exotic and drive it in the snow is not because it's unsafe or fear of clearance, it's because there are a million other people on the road who drive like idiots and I don't like depreciating my car by $30K just because someone in a $5K shitmobile forgets how to drive every Winter and hits me.

    There is absolutely no upside to driving an exotic in the snow because:

    a) You don't use the performance
    b) The risk of being hit by someone is vastly higher
    c) They use salt in many places in the US

    I understand your reasons not to drive your sports cars in the winter but saying that putting winter tires on a RWD Ferrari would make it drivable in the winter in the same way a TTS is drivable is just not serious. When I put my winter Michelins there's nothing more stable in the fresh snow.

    Just when the G63/ML63/X5M etc. drivers think that "their time has come" the little Porsche is gone.

    As for the risks of damage and salt, I don't see how a EUR 170K Cayenne Turbo or say a G63 is a better solution to that problems. I am tempted to get what I consider the best real SUV on the market - the LX570 just to taste something different (tried the RR and it was terrible) but it's pointless as I will still be driving the TTS most of the time.

    I just can't imagine keeping my sports car locked in a garage, sitting on summer tires for 4-5 months.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    Herbaliser:
    I understand your reasons not to drive your sports cars in the winter but saying that putting winter tires on a RWD Ferrari would make it drivable in the winter in the same way a TTS is drivable is just not serious. When I put my winter Michelins there's nothing more stable in the fresh snow.

    Just when the G63/ML63/X5M etc. drivers think that "their time has come" the little Porsche is gone.

     

     

    And when you break then you are gone Smiley - sorry - seams that your snow is different to ours here


    --

    AM


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    Yes, it's different. It's far worst than anything you could experience in Germany. They usually don't threat the snow on time so it turns to ice.

    And what's the problem with the breaking? Are you implying that an SUV can stop better in snow than a 911? Because it surely isn't the case.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    I think ALDO means that the AWD only gives you an advantage regarding traction/stabilty but when it comes to braking, basically all cars are the same on snow/ice.

    Over the past decades, I drove many cars in winter time, due to my wife's excessive skiing passion, we are also often in Austria and often in locations where people do not usually use a sportscar. Yes, I've seen Ferraris and Lamborghinis in snow, even had the pleasure once to drive on during a driving ed event but to be honest, those cars which are good and feel safe in heavy rain, usually feel the same on snow.

    My R8 is the sportscar I love most in rain...like ever. Fantastic traction, stability AND braking performance and no, I have no semi-slicks. My second favorite car in rain was my former 991.1 Turbo S. Very similar to the R8 but with a slightly less impressive traction in Sport mode (I drive my R8 in the comparable Dynamic mode, which has an excellent neutral setup in rain).

    The worst "sportscar" I remember in snow was our old BMW M3 Cab (E93?). This car was snow hell, traction was horrible, despite excellent winter tires. Braking was also bad, this thing had a weight of more than 1900 kg, this is almost 300 kg more than my R8 or former 991.1 Turbo S.

    Bottom line is: I see many 911 in winter time but maybe saw one Ferrari (with the exception of the FF) and one Lamborghini...like EVER. Never saw a McLaren in winter time but maybe ALDO wants to be the first? 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    You don't see exotics in the snow because the average exotic owners usually has a handful of cars that are better suited for it. Like I said, I wouldn't drive my exotic in the snow/ice not because it's so difficult, but because I don't trust the other million people. The first snow day every year after year, traffic grinds to a halt and people crash constantly. It's like they all forgot they drive in snow 2-3 months of every year. It's like they've never seen it before all of a sudden. It makes no sense, but that's the reality of it. Many people are just really shitty drivers. I don't want someone to rear end me and cause massive depreciation to my car. Accident record + exotic = instant loss of resale value no matter how minor it is.

    Also, having a 600hp 911 Turbo in the snow is still the equivalent of having a 200hp Toyota in the dry. The 911 Turbo is faster than slow, but it's still slow. The performance is wasted.

    Finally, though the 911 Turbo might have some more clearance, I will drive an AWD SUV into a giant bank of snow without even thinking twice while a 911 Turbo will take it's sweet as time trying to get around it. I'll plow an SUV through whatever mess there is.

    If you can only have one car and you want something high-end, a 911 Turbo is probably a great choice. If you're going to have an SUV or big AWD daily driver sedan anyway, then the exotic choice is irrelevant  with respect to weather versatility and anything will do just fine.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    Why suffer in other cars in the winter? No matter how good a SUV is, any sports car/GT cars still drives a hell lot better.

    Long road trips in the winter where it might or might not snow? FF or G? FF all the way. I did do that, quite a number of times too.

    A 911 Turbo is just as capable as the FF with proper tires for traction. Not the whole road will be covered in snow and ice as times, and for the stitches that is clear, a sports car/GT car can stretch the legs a little.

    Shoulder seasons where the road is clear but temperature is low? Taking a SUV or something else? Something else all the way. F12 with winter tires is great for low temperature, and it will also handle a bit of snow and ice too.

    I just grabbed the last set of winter tires in the country for the Huracan, another car I planned on driving year round. 

    With the winter tires coming for the 918, I can grab any car any time to go regardless of weather. 

    At the end of the day, cars are just, cars. Potential accidents are why we buy insurances right?

     

     

     


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    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    "Winter" is different than "snow." If it's cold and dry, you might as well take a LF or GT3 RS because dry is dry. You can drive a P1 in -10C just fine so long as the roads have been cleared.

    If I were taking a long road trip in the Winter with high probability of snow/slush/ice, then I'll definitely take the SUV. Not to mention if you're traveling with someone and have luggage/snowboard/skis/whatever. It's just easier to load up a nice big SUV and not have a care in the world.

    Yes, cars are just cars, but in the US, your F12 just lost probably $10-20K if that accident shows up on Carfax or anything like that. People in the US are crazy and don't like miles or even the slightest dings. They do dumb shit like drill skid pads into the bottoms of the front ends so they don't scrape.They spend $5K to clear bra an entire car and ruin the look of a $10K paint option. 

    Many insurance companies and states do not have coverage or laws to recoup lost value. No matter how much your insurance covers the repairs, come resale, you lose big.

    If you are sufficiently wealthy it's not a big deal, but most on here do feel a sting when $20K gets wiped off the value of their car.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    And as you have seen, I drove the FF and F12 in the snow too.

    Without proper winter tires, all the cars you mentioned might as well be wearing skates. Those summer sticky tires have zero traction, even without the help of ice and snow. Hell even 200HP Toyota will be skipping off the road.

     


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