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    You've talked me out of it

    I'm cancelling my 997 S that is a May build due to arrive in June.

    I'm certainly not happy about this decision, but I've read enough on this and other forums to convince me I'd be making a big mistake in taking delivery of this car.

    There are three main reasons I came to the conclusion:

    1) Reliability
    Too many stories about major problems with your cars. I do understand that sh*t happens, but after driving Japanese cars for so long I'm not willing to go back to the days when I had to think about reliability. With the cars I've owned in the past 20 years reliability just is. I like that. Every survey I've found has rated Porsche near the bottom in reliability (Consumers, JD Powers, etc.). Perhaps they *were* reliable at one time (like Mercedes, which is now at the bottom also), but they have lost that. It is only a matter of time until their reputation catches up with reality.

    2) Cost
    Initial cost is one thing, but maintenence is another. This RMS situation is completely out of control. I'm not willing to plunk down $90K on a car that may need a new engine in the future. Even if it doesn't, the reliability issues mean that it will be costly to maintain. Porsche used to be a car with fantastic resale value. Have you looked at this? If so, it's very sad. Turbos from a few years ago can be had for the same price as new 997. That's not sad, that is pathetic. You need to go back to the 993 to find a car that holds it value well.

    3) Opinions
    Maybe it is just me, but it seems that most of the subjects and posts on these forums are from people who are (much) less than thrilled with their cars. Few posts rave about the driving experience. The car magazines make the 911 car of the year over and over again, but the competition is usually some American sedan or an S2000 costing far less. The only people who seem really passionate about their Porsches are people driving older models, or who have always owned the things, or who own a stable of high end cars. Where are the comments from guys like me? People who've owned a number of different cars looking for a better driving experience and able to pay for it?

    The first two points basically boil down to money. If I treat the Porsche as a toy, use it on weekends and pleasure drives, then none of the reliability issues matter all that much. But I can't justify a $90K toy that I can't even take on long trips. I can afford it, but I can't justify it in my own mind given the alternatives out there both new and used.

    But the last point is the real killer for me. I've always dreamed of owning another Porsche (last was a 944 right out of college), but that isn't going to happen now.

    See ya and enjoy your cars!

    Re: You've talked me out of it

    Always remember the first year production cars have few bugs that will work out after the first year. For example, compare Porsche's reliability to Mercedes and you'll see that Porsche is really trouble free.

    Nonetheless, good luck to you and wish you best of luck in your selection of your next sports cars .

    Re: You've talked me out of it

    Also, spend time on ANY German car board and it's populated with threads of problems as that's where you look for help. Few post about nice drives with pics - these days they'll get flamed as a " pollyanna ".

    Hey, my '02 Turbo has been flat bedded 4 times, but I'm getting the second 997 Turbo at my dealer !

    Re: You've talked me out of it

    anotheruser sad to hear it , but it is the first production year of the 997, so I wish you to buy the 997 later

    Re: You've talked me out of it

    Big mistake, stranger, but I respect you nonetheless. Here's why I think it's a mistake:

    1. Reliability
    Too many stories on the Internet only emphasize the negative, which is why I first came to this board...to listen to the worst of the worst stories. In 6000+ miles, I have had no problems with my 997. It's my 3rd Porsche; never had an RMS leak. Based on inform chats with friends, who own sportcars of different makes, Porsche seems to be the most reliable, true sportcar out in the wild!

    2. Cost
    In its class and for the price, Porsche has an excellent resale value. To get better resale value, I would have to step up to a Lambo or Ferrari--both fine cars--but my wife would conduct a kangaroo court before my mock execution out behind the house. She's a smart woman so I would fully expect that after a "decent interval" she would hire a professional hitman to take me out for good. So I'll stick with the less expensive 911 for now. Thank you very much. Hope my sense of humor is not offensive please. Just trying to have a little fun. I'm weird. I bought the 911 for performance driving, not as an investiment so I think I cannot win on this point. That said, in 3 Porsches I have not spent on abnormal amount of money and I am completely obsessive about my car's maintenance and repair. My life is at stake if my car is not in top shape.

    3. Opinions
    If I was better motivated, I could write a chapter a day on this board with pictures from my cell phone about the shear joy I am experiencing in the new 911!!!!! However, my wife wants me to paint our new house first! Perhaps I will try to write more positive things, albeit I am sure I have not said anything negative so far, except about the HBL Porsche dealership in Virginia.

    Contact me (PM) and I'll be glad to tell you more. I really think not getting the new 911 is a mistake if you really love to drive a machine through high-speed turns! However, I am aware that my little opinion and $5 will almost buy you a cup of Starbucks!

    Re: You've talked me out of it

    As an infrequent poster to this board, I can't emphasize enough how much I love to drive my 997 every day. The car has been 100% trouble free (Nov. 04 build) and has the smoothness, speed and power delivery that my old 911 just didn't have.

    It's an amazing machine that begs to be driven hard. I have no regrets buying it whatsoever.

    Re: You've talked me out of it

    P.S. I'm not a Porsche nut. If someone else can make a better car in the same price group, I'll drop Porsche like a bad habit! I never liked the 911 (too unstable for my tastes), but the 997 is a different animal!

    Re: You've talked me out of it

    Quote:
    anotheruser said:
    I'm cancelling my 997 S that is a May build due to arrive in June.

    I'm certainly not happy about this decision, but I've read enough on this and other forums to convince me I'd be making a big mistake in taking delivery of this car.




    Its certainly your desition, and either way its respectable, but you seem to base your desition on some misconceptions that I would like clear up to make sure you don't come to a wrong conclusion you may regret later on. If you still feel the same way afterwards, then thats perfectly fine.



    Quote:

    1) Reliability
    Too many stories about major problems with your cars. I do understand that sh*t happens, but after driving Japanese cars for so long I'm not willing to go back to the days when I had to think about reliability. With the cars I've owned in the past 20 years reliability just is. I like that. Every survey I've found has rated Porsche near the bottom in reliability (Consumers, JD Powers, etc.). Perhaps they *were* reliable at one time (like Mercedes, which is now at the bottom also), but they have lost that. It is only a matter of time until their reputation catches up with reality.



    First, do not judge reliability by internet forums since the vision you will get is completely skewed, forums are for sharing information and much of this is about resolving problems the cars may have, so it may appear that many cars may be faulty when there may be 100 cars that are OK per faulty car out there, but you will not hear about them since they run perfectly.
    Second, if you look more closely to those reliability studies you mentioned like JD Powers, you will see that the 911 score the HIGHEST in its class in every one. In the only one you will find a bad score was when the Cayenne was introduced and all models were considered together in a late JD Powers survey, due to the poor Cayenne results, Porsche in general ranked low, but the 911 still ranked the highest in its class in the survey. But Porsche in general ranked low due to the first year production Cayenne, not the 911.
    So if reliability is one of your reasons, its the other way around.



    Quote:

    2) Cost
    Initial cost is one thing, but maintenence is another. This RMS situation is completely out of control. I'm not willing to plunk down $90K on a car that may need a new engine in the future. Even if it doesn't, the reliability issues mean that it will be costly to maintain. Porsche used to be a car with fantastic resale value. Have you looked at this? If so, it's very sad. Turbos from a few years ago can be had for the same price as new 997. That's not sad, that is pathetic. You need to go back to the 993 to find a car that holds it value well.



    There are no maintenace issues, thats one of the strong points of the 997, its maintenace intervals are every 20,000Km which is even less than the 996, and combined with the other costs like fuel consumption, insurance, etc. you will find that its among the most economical to maintain in its class or similarly performing sportcars.
    The RMS isue is covered under warranty and after 4 years if you are unlucky enough to still get one, PCNA most often still covers repair under good will, and if you are even more unliky that they don't for whatever reason, its an $1k job at the most. Other sportcars will cost you much more just in regular maintenace. So not a reason enough to avoid purchase if you like the car.
    As to resale, compare to its competition and make an average with all the makers and see were the 997S stands, you will be surprised.



    Quote:

    3) Opinions
    Maybe it is just me, but it seems that most of the subjects and posts on these forums are from people who are (much) less than thrilled with their cars. Few posts rave about the driving experience. The car magazines make the 911 car of the year over and over again, but the competition is usually some American sedan or an S2000 costing far less. The only people who seem really passionate about their Porsches are people driving older models, or who have always owned the things, or who own a stable of high end cars. Where are the comments from guys like me? People who've owned a number of different cars looking for a better driving experience and able to pay for it?



    Read the road tests reviews posted here about the 997, including mine (My 997 test drive impressions), and you will see that that is precisely what owners value more, the driving experience. Not drag-strip acceleration numbers, not posuer value, not HP numbers, not the size of the trunk, not the production numbers... its the driving experience.
    But what others feel doesn't matter IMO, what does is how you feel when YOU drive it, test drive one and then decide about that. If you walk away emotionless after test driving it (I trust you have already) in a mountain road then its not the car for you, no matter how passionate other drivers are, and viceversa.



    I'm curious, if you decided against the 997S you must of chosen another one for those reasons, what sportcar can perform like a 997S, be more reliable, be cheaper to maintain, and offer a better sportdriving experience and inspire more passion from their owners than a 997S?

    Just my 2 cents, but if you are basing your desition on these points then you a making a mistake IMO.

    Excellent decision!

    You've just left open one more build slot for those of us who want to own a 997/S.

    The beauty of this decison is that you can always come back in a couple of years when new 997's will be going for $79K for 997 and $89K for 997S with the Dollar/Euro exchange rate.

    Re: You've talked me out of it

    Any negativity about the 997 on these boards is much louder then positives. Who is going to voluntarily post that there car has been great? But, given one problem the likelihood that people 'll bltch is high. Human nature.
    Recently at the dealer I mentioned the supposed cam shaft tolerance recall. The service guy was not familiar with it and said they hadn't had one car in for it and checked mine on the puter and found nothing. He said the car has been relatively trouble free for them. Is he lying, dunno? Anyway, so much for the "sky is falling" stuff you read about here.
    Sounds like this car is not for you. Maybe it's the dough or whatever but it appears that the negativity is supporting your decision. Good luck with whatever car you decide to purchase.

    Re: You've talked me out of it

    I am living in Eastern Europe, Romania. The roads are very-very bad here. There are a lot of deep potholes (more like trenches).

    I can tell you many stories about german cars and any type of car in general that is using a lot of electronic systems like air suspensions or sensors, that are literally destroyed by using them here.

    I bought a pre-production 997 because the 997S has 19" rims which are too much here (even on 997 I would prefer 17" if I could), and I have now 10.000 miles on it (since August 5, 2004). Nothing was wrong. This is amazing for me. I don't know any other car in this class that was trouble free for 10.000 miles where I live.

    Let me put it in a different way: here you may have one of your car's light bulbs replaced once a month because of the non-stop trembling of the car drove on such roads. And I had none until now. My brand new Audi A4 had at least 10 in the last year and I had 15" rims on it.

    So I rest my case. Unfortunately I am torturing a 997 on daily bases and the thing didn't broke until now. Instead I got hit in a parking lot when I was standing still by an old car with bad brakes coming the wrong way. But that's life, isn't it ?

    I also noticed the stories but I also noticed that the stories were about S cars. Maybe the new engine needs some more testing ? Why are you not buying a 997 ? Are you really going to need the extra HP for a daily driver as you say ?

    Or lease the damn thing and minimize your loss if something goes terrible wrong.

    But anyway, do as you think best, as far as I am concerned I have only one question for you, out of curiosity: did you test drove one before ordering it ?

    Re: You've talked me out of it

    Thats good stranger.
    Its better off that we don't have a poser driving our cars.
    You are truly a stooge to use these forums as a sample size for opinion.

    How many people who own 997's or 996's are on this forum, MAYBE like 1 percent. Ok so like 5% of 1% have had bad experiences, thats like what? 10 cars out of tens of thousands?

    Thanks for not buying one.
    Your right, you should stick to your S2000 (whatever), or even go buy a 993. We'll all be happy to blow the effing doors off your wagon.

    God can these posts get any stupider? (is that a word?)

    Re: You've talked me out of it

    Amen Carlos. Very Well said.

    After owning a 996 Turbo I'm putting my 10,400,000 cents worth, putting my money where my mouth is into a 997 because there's NOTHING else out there that will give you as much for the money.

    I bet most every guy that passes up an opportunity to own their first Porsche will always kick themselves for not doing so.

    Re: You've talked me out of it

    Anotheruser, on behalf of RR4 I apologize. Your statement was valid and I'm grateful you helped me realize just how much I love my little black car. Cheers friend. I hope you continue to contribute your views.

    Re: You've talked me out of it

    Quote:
    RR4 said:
    Thats good stranger.
    Its better off that we don't have a poser driving our cars.
    You are truly a stooge to use these forums as a sample size for opinion.

    How many people who own 997's or 996's are on this forum, MAYBE like 1 percent. Ok so like 5% of 1% have had bad experiences, thats like what? 10 cars out of tens of thousands?

    Thanks for not buying one.
    Your right, you should stick to your S2000 (whatever), or even go buy a 993. We'll all be happy to blow the effing doors off your wagon.

    God can these posts get any stupider? (is that a word?)



    No need to get personal RR4, his post was respectful and has a right to express his opinions or doubts. If you have something to "argument" please do so otherwise keep it to your self out of respect for your fellow forum members who don't want to read it, nor want to be associated to it. Keep this place friendly and clean.
    (more stupid is the word BTW)

    Re: You've talked me out of it

    Bottom line is you cannot tar every Porsche with the same brush. My last 2 cars was a Lotus Elise which went back to the dealership 10 times for minor little things and an E46 M3 which was at the garage for similar little things but at the end of the day I enjoyed those 2 cars to the fullest and have not regretted buying them. Life too short to worry about these things. If it's crossed your mind buying one...do it is my advice.

    FYI, I'm currently waiting for the 997 GT3 to fufill my dream of owning my first Porsche.

    Re: You've talked me out of it

    Quote:
    Ron (Houston) said:
    Always remember the first year production cars have few bugs that will work out after the first year.



    RMS is an issue since the 97 986 and 98 996! 03 cayenne vibraton and hesitation problems are still present in 05s. i'm well aware of the "1st year" excuse german manufacturers have gotten away with for years, but they seem to be stretching that 1st year out into many years these days. german cars are becomming the american ones of old (and resales are plummeting accordingly) while the american cars are overtaking the german ones. i guess that's good for us with the dollar taking such a dump vs. the euro.

    Re: You've talked me out of it

    I've limited experience having owned my first Porsche, a 997S, for only 1 week, but I am thrilled with my decision. I haven't posted about this because I thought it'd be boring, and there are so many more qualified and knowledgeable people here than me.

    I found this forum after having ordered my car and never having heard of RMS etc before and it made me nervous - same as you. BUT having put about 400km on demonstrator cars I knew this was the car I wanted. Previous experience on BMW forums also indicated that people use these forums to get help when issues arise, so they tend to be dominated by issues. At least that's my attitude to these forums - your's may be to cancel your order.... but I feel that if you are a true driving enthusiast, then you'd be missing out

    I've owned Japanese cars up till 1993, Australian V8's till 1996, then German cars, Audi Merc and BMW, I haven't kept a car longer than 2 years since 1988. Most think I'm crazy as the depreciation on cars in NZ is HUGE, and our cars are relatively expensive...mine cost $US167k!! but I just love driving and if you are the same, you should take a 997S out, preferably over a weekend, before you cancel your order. If this would be a chore for you, then cancelling the 997S is probably the most appropriate decision (for you)

    PS.
    I know our long trips in NZ are short by US standards, but our kids, 9 and 6 love travelling long distance in the Porsche, and where we used to fill a 500l boot, we make do with 135l(or so) just fine....( 2500km done so far!! )

    Re: You've talked me out of it

    Well said Carlos. How many people call their doctor to say they're feeling good? They only bitch when somethings wrong. Same with this forum and an anology with which I agree,almost all of the 997 owners who have been trouble free are too busy enjoying themselves and do not take the time on this forum to share their positive experience. The first six months with my '01 M3 was a nightmare, but I stuck with it. Based upon that experience, I'm looking forward to taking delivery on my 997 even if I have to push it home!

    Re: You've talked me out of it

    Quote:
    anotheruser said:
    But I can't justify a $90K toy that I can't even take on long trips. I can afford it, but I can't justify it in my own mind given the alternatives out there both new and used.





    Either you can't afford it or you don't want it. Here's a test.

    If the car were $30K would you buy it? If the answer is yes, you want the car but can't afford it at $90K. If the answer is no, you simply don't want the car.

    It's just a nice expensive indulgence for those who CAN afford to loosen up $90K and _SPEND_ it.


    Re: You've talked me out of it

    My 997 Turbo will be my 6th 911 since 1987. There is a certain metaphysical " zone " I get into when I'm zipping along a winding road , with that humming " sewing machine on steriods " sound from over the shoulders.
    My Turbo has so much mid-range TQ and has such a quiet stock exhaust , that I can stay in third gear between 2500-4000 rpm and just twitch the big toe on my right foot an 1/8 to 1/4 of an inch to move swiftly and silently ( almost no engine sound with so little throttle opening ) with that shove in the back along these roads . It's almost eerie in a magnetic-lev train sort of way !

    Re: You've talked me out of it

    Quote:
    ben, lj said:


    RMS is an issue since the 97 986 and 98 996! 03 cayenne vibraton and hesitation problems are still present in 05s. i'm well aware of the "1st year" excuse german manufacturers have gotten away with for years, but they seem to be stretching that 1st year out into many years these days. german cars are becomming the american ones of old (and resales are plummeting accordingly) while the american cars are overtaking the german ones. i guess that's good for us with the dollar taking such a dump vs. the euro.



    Ben, you remain the King of Negativity. Precisely which American makes and models does 'American Cars taking over the German ones' refer? I can think of one potential contender--the C6 Z06 Corvette...bravo GM on that. Which others?

    Assuming five years and 75k miles, here are the top 10 from Edmunds with the percentage of retained value:

    BMW Z8 54 percent
    Mercedes Benz C class 54 percent
    Mini Cooper 53 percent
    Porsche 911 53 percent
    Porsche Boxster 53 percent
    Lexus SC430 52 percent
    Acura TL 52 percent
    Honda s2000 52 percent
    Dodge Viper 52 percent
    Lexus GS300 52 percent

    For lack of better comparison, a 2000 Corvette sold as new for around $45K with some options, and with 75K miles on the clock would now sell for low $20's...even RMS bedeviled 996 does better.

    Strictly anecdotal this, but 3 friends have sold their '99-'02 996's within the last 6 months on the private market.
    Their original MSRP's ranged from $60K to $75K,
    sale price here in late 2004/early 2005 ranged from $39K to $57.5K. I maintain that the above Edmunds stats understate true resale if anything.

    My only point is, if you want to slam Porsche for resale values, please provide some actual data supporting your assertion.

    Hope you're having fun with that GT. Put me on the list for a hellride.

    Re: You've talked me out of it

    Quote:
    Leong said:

    I know our long trips in NZ are short by US standards, but our kids, 9 and 6 love travelling long distance in the Porsche, and where we used to fill a 500l boot, we make do with 135l(or so) just fine....( 2500km done so far!! )



    Leong,
    What an amazing picture!
    I am not exagerating mate, you are by far the member that sends the most beautiful pictures!
    It makes wanna drive like you have no idea!
    Enjoy your car!
    BTW, thanks for the PM on your thoughts about -20 sports suspension, very helpful.

    Re: You've talked me out of it

    Quote:
    Damian said:
    Quote:
    ben, lj said:


    RMS is an issue since the 97 986 and 98 996! 03 cayenne vibraton and hesitation problems are still present in 05s. i'm well aware of the "1st year" excuse german manufacturers have gotten away with for years, but they seem to be stretching that 1st year out into many years these days. german cars are becomming the american ones of old (and resales are plummeting accordingly) while the american cars are overtaking the german ones. i guess that's good for us with the dollar taking such a dump vs. the euro.



    Ben, you remain the King of Negativity. Precisely which American makes and models does 'American Cars taking over the German ones' refer? I can think of one potential contender--the C6 Z06 Corvette...bravo GM on that. Which others?

    Assuming five years and 75k miles, here are the top 10 from Edmunds with the percentage of retained value:

    BMW Z8 54 percent
    Mercedes Benz C class 54 percent
    Mini Cooper 53 percent
    Porsche 911 53 percent
    Porsche Boxster 53 percent
    Lexus SC430 52 percent
    Acura TL 52 percent
    Honda s2000 52 percent
    Dodge Viper 52 percent
    Lexus GS300 52 percent

    For lack of better comparison, a 2000 Corvette sold as new for around $45K with some options, and with 75K miles on the clock would now sell for low $20's...even RMS bedeviled 996 does better.

    Strictly anecdotal this, but 3 friends have sold their '99-'02 996's within the last 6 months on the private market.
    Their original MSRP's ranged from $60K to $75K,
    sale price here in late 2004/early 2005 ranged from $39K to $57.5K. I maintain that the above Edmunds stats understate true resale if anything.

    My only point is, if you want to slam Porsche for resale values, please provide some actual data supporting your assertion.

    Hope you're having fun with that GT. Put me on the list for a hellride.



    i've seen several surveys of late showing american car makers to be rising above german ones in quality (everytime i read one i'm even more surprised they've risen from the rubble of their reputations while germans are going into the crapper from such a lofty perch). since i don't care about status, i'd be thrilled to get what i want from american cars for a change. my wife isn't thrilled about the idea and i can't help but thinking maybe i'm turning into an old fart, but some of the latest caddie products are looking very interesting. the crap arse quality of our cayenne could very well put us in a caddie 4 door down the road instead of porsche's future 4 door offering. the caddie couldn't be any worse.

    i wasn't suggesting that american car makers resales were getting BETTER just that german ones are getting worse likely owing to their lack of quality of late. fwiw, 98 (and older) 993s are selling for more than (99 if not 00 even) 996s with similar mileage! wow! incidentally, there hasn't been a 996 911 delivered to america ever with a $60k MSRP (base strippers started closer to $70k - 04 stripper with ZERO options will run you over $70k w/destination charge). as well, porsche benefits mightily in these studies because of the rape charges for options which aren't added to the stripper base used for these reports. as well, edmunds used car pricing is a joke (HIGH).

    i'd love to take you for a scare anytime in the "hellride".

    Re: You've talked me out of it

    I want to assure anyone reading my original post that I respect your car choices and am envious of every Porsche owner. They are great cars, IMHO. But for the reasons I listed perhaps not the car for me. I say perhaps because I really appreciate all of your comments and you've given me some things to think about.

    In response to a couple of specific questions:

    Yes, I did test drive the car and loved it. That's why I put down the non-refundable deposit on the car when I ordered in January.

    If the car were $30K then yes I would buy it. Most of the alternatives I've looked at are things like a used Esprit which falls in that price range. Sure it's unreliable but I know that so will only treat it as a toy. Does that mean I can't afford it? It means I can't justify it in my own mind.

    I don't know of a better balance of performance, value, etc. than the Porsche, which is I why I plunked my money down in January. I'm now wondering if there is a better balance, though.

    To those who flamed me, no offense was intended.

    All that said, I do wish you all well and do hope you enjoy your cars. If I owned one I'm sure I would.

    Re: You've talked me out of it

    Quote:
    Fanch said:
    Leong,
    What an amazing picture!
    I am not exagerating mate, you are by far the member that sends the most beautiful pictures!
    It makes wanna drive like you have no idea!
    Enjoy your car!
    BTW, thanks for the PM on your thoughts about -20 sports suspension, very helpful.



    Thanks mate, the car certainly makes getting around the country way more fun. I've posted my photos in the users gallery for anyone interested....

    http://www.rennteam.com/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=5571

    German Quality

    Eckhard Cordes the new boss of Mercedes-Benz has said that Mercedes-Benz has to clean up on its technology becaause it is making the cars too complex and too unreliable. And if you're a Stuttgart taxi driver it's a very valid point. Mercedes are also just coming back from the dead when it comes to interior quality which has been truly cheap and nasty.

    BMW has had quality lapses with the X3 which they will have to fix. They also have certain "issues" with styling, but not to worry as Chris Bangle has been quoted as saying that it's time to start the 2nd BMW styling revolution. (You have been warned...)

    Porsche has a chronic (read the definition before you howl) RMS problem that they arrogantly seem to deny exists. Only now do they admit that the 996 and 986 might have been sub-par in quality terms in some areas...and then there's the 1st generation PCCB's

    VW has almost given the house away with poor quality on the Golf/Jetta/Bora/Touareg. Audi somehow has survived wavy windshields and imbalance problems on Allroads.

    The fear should be that the Japanese will fairly soon do it better than the Germans (Hello Lexus supercar), and German arrogance will prevent them from seeing their own mistakes before it's too late.

    I love my cars, but I'm not blind to their failings...

    Re: You've talked me out of it

    Leong, those are simply beautiful photos! thanks for sharing

    Re: You've talked me out of it

    "anotheruser" we just dont want you to make the wrong decision, I know what you are thinking now, you are very confused, Can you wait until june, see the car, then you can think clearly .
    one more thing about Reliability, I had 3 turbos before and now 997S and let me tell you that I CANT drive slowly always kickdown!, over the years and nothing happend to them and I know 4 of my friends experience the same thing.
    So Dont question relibilty couse IMO nothing is more reliable than porsche.
    BTW do you know that more than 80% of porsche EVER MADE is still on the road?

    Re: You've talked me out of it

    Leong - Great shots! Truly inspirational.

     
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