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    advice on 360 as daily driver

    Hi

    sorry if this has been discussed before - I'm very ignorant on all things ferrari but I'm now considering a 360 Modena F1 as a daily car - would like the advice of the gurus on this board:

    - am I crazy? (I drive a 99 996C2 tip now, I think it's probably a lot more suited for daily driving but is a 360modena useable daily as well? - parking/security/ground clearance not an issue, have a Rav4 in case I really need space so that is not an issue as well)

    - I have heard conflicting advice on the F355 (some say it is not useable daily, some say it is best used everyday or things go wrong - must admit I can't see the logic in the latter piece of advice), is the 360 clearly better/more reliable?

    - Are there any well known issues/weaknesses with the 360? I'm thinking of getting one with the F1 tranny so any issues with that would be good. Heard ofpremature clutch wear but if it is mainly highway plus some city driving will that be an issue?

    - any model years to best avoid (newest is best but is there such a thing as an acceptable early car? thinking '00 or '01 - any differences?)

    - any other advice??

    Thanks in advance!

    Re: advice on 360 as daily driver

    Hi,
    difficult question, can't be answered easily. Let me try.

    The 360 surely CAN be used as a daily driver, but I wouldn't do so. It definetely is more usable than its predecessor, the 355. 360 has more space inside the cabin, even a greater luggage compartement if you take the space behind the seats into account. The driving position is far better than in the 355, its steering wheel can be adjusted in every direction, you or your legs won't get tired after some hours of driving. Ground clearance of the 360 is also quite good. It loses against the 355 concerning visibility: the front (flaps of the front lights) as well as the back (no hatchback design engine lid) can be seen by the driver much better in the 355, moreover it's the smaller car of the two.
    Concerning your question regarding the 355: the 355 surely could be used regularly as well, but when not used enough it started to make problems due to too less usage. Don't know if that is the case for the 360 as well.
    Rigidity and stability of the 360's chassis are worlds apart compared to the 355, I read somewhere, that the 360 is one of the stiffest cars around. Seats of the 360 are comfortable but give enough side grip, chassis in "normal" setting offers enough comfort for relaxed driving, whilst "sport" setting gives you loads of fun for fast turns.
    IMO the F1 isn't the best thing for town, as it isn't very comfortable at crawling or low speeds or when starting the car at a hill. Moreover the clutch of the normal 6-speed lasts twice as long as that of the F1 (60000km vs. 30000km). But for travelling on the motorway as well as for fast driving the F1 tranny is near perfect.

    So why wouldn't I use it daily then? Well, fact is, you COULD use it daily, but you simply don't WANT to use it daily out of several reasons:

    - in cars like the 360 you are always in the middle of attention
    - driving a Ferrari sometimes leads to strange reactions in your environment: sarcastic comments for the best, envy and hate on the other hand
    - relaxed driving is possible, but that is not what the car was designed for; there are better cars for cruising
    - running costs are quite high (fuel consumption, spare parts)
    - if you drive it daily, car loses its specialness

    So my advice would be: get a daily driver (if you don't already have one) and get something like the 360 for regular, but not daily driving pleasure.

    Best,
    Rossi

    Re: advice on 360 as daily driver

    I agree with much of what Rossi wrote. His technical explanations are valid. Where I disagree is at least for me (I am giving you the emotional component), a 360 would be a great daily car especially if you do not have parking space issues or security concerns.

    After a hard day of work there is nothing more pleasureable than getting into one of the most beautiful sensual cars in the world and driving home or wherever. Problems at work will disappear as soon as you start it and the smile on your face will remain to your destination. It is what a Ferrari does best. The car provides the driver with the tonic, sanctuary and nirvana from all wordly concerns which no other car can match.

    Having owned a 360 6 speed and now a F1, I absolutely love the F1. It gives the driver everthing he/she could want in the driving experience. However, it does come with a cost. The F1 tranny last about 20,000 miles in city driving and 30,000 in highway. The cost to replace is about $4500. The early 6 speed models had clutch problems which were corrected in late 2001 or early 2002.

    If I was buying a used 360, I would go for the latest model year possible and try to get the Ferrari extended warranty.Many used 360 coupes should be hitting the market in the near future with the intro of the 430.

    Re: advice on 360 as daily driver

    I have owned both and the 360 is much better. Use it every day? You can.

    Re: advice on 360 as daily driver

    360, esp CS, is a phenomenally visceral and addictive car, but my biggest issue w/commuting in 360, esp on freeways w/innumerable inept SUV drivers, is notable safety weakness of 360 vs 996TTS/SL55....360 lacks side/head airbags, crumple zones of high-end mass production cars, and has history of post-collision fires....draw your own risk/reward conclusions on 360 use as a commuter car....

    Re: advice on 360 as daily driver

    Thanks for your insights Rossi, Nberry, Jerry & VKSF!
    Nberry, when you say the F1 tranny lasts 20,000 miles you mean the clutch don't you?
    VKSF - very valid consideration about safety, and post colision fires sounds really scary - I'm sure the key that it is only really post collision? I had a friend with a very old lamborghini that caught fire inexplicably while he was in traffic - lack of maintenance I'm sure but scary nonetheless.

    Interesting also that you did not mention reliability issues - the maintenance and clutch replacement costs are high but as long as the car does not leave me stranded I'd say it was reliable.

    I guess when I say daily driver I mean it'd be a car I could use everyday if I desired (I'm sure in the honeymoon period I'd want to use it every single waking minute!) but Rossi I'd tend to agree in the long term such a wonderful car is not really suited for heavy traffic crawl.

    Thanks fellas.

    Re: advice on 360 as daily driver

    360 reliability is extremely strong, at least based upon my experience w/3 new 360s over 10K+ aggressively driven miles and what I've heard anecdotally from numerous pals w/360s (many of whom have similarly had serial new 360s that they've used 5K-10K miles each). My perception is 360 reliability is comparable to that of 996TT and exceeds that of many modern Mercs, BMWs and Cayennes.

    Fire issue is post-collision as far as I know....apparently, fuel tank/lines are placed very close to hot engine components, which leads to tendency to fireball in significant, esp rear-end, collision. Some have mentioned fire extinguishers as way to hedge oneself, but I doubt fire extinguisher is of much use if one's knocked unconscious/injured in collision....

    Again, 360 is arguably one of world's most addictive sportscars, but like any visceral experience, 360 offers a risk/reward balance that is very much an individual judgement call. 996TTS/SL55 may be a more rational commuter car, but there's a reason many with all of the relevant cars in their garage keep reaching for that 360 for the daily commute

    Re: advice on 360 as daily driver

    But honestly... 5-10k is not a heavily usage - or? I mean, I drive with my daily BMW 70k a year. I could do this with the 996, too. But - I wouldn't do this with a Ferrari. I think this car is just not made for. Also - the point Rossi brought in, its to much visability with such a car, to much jealousy!

    Re: advice on 360 as daily driver

    Quote:
    9966c2 said:
    Thanks for your insights Rossi, Nberry, Jerry & VKSF!
    Nberry, when you say the F1 tranny lasts 20,000 miles you mean the clutch don't you?
    VKSF - very valid consideration about safety, and post colision fires sounds really scary - I'm sure the key that it is only really post collision? I had a friend with a very old lamborghini that caught fire inexplicably while he was in traffic - lack of maintenance I'm sure but scary nonetheless.

    Interesting also that you did not mention reliability issues - the maintenance and clutch replacement costs are high but as long as the car does not leave me stranded I'd say it was reliable.

    I guess when I say daily driver I mean it'd be a car I could use everyday if I desired (I'm sure in the honeymoon period I'd want to use it every single waking minute!) but Rossi I'd tend to agree in the long term such a wonderful car is not really suited for heavy traffic crawl.

    Thanks fellas.



    Ferrari for years has been aware of the non daily use car criticism. They have made tremendous strides with the 360. It is reliable, fun to drive and yes attention getting.

    Regarding the tranny, you are correct it is the clutch that would need replacing.

    Regarding safety, the car would not be allowed in the US unless our very strict DOT is satisfied it is safe for US roads.

    Re: advice on 360 as daily driver

    glad to know it's reliable...definitely very much 'confirmed' by the lack of recurring posts on known reliability issues...makes the decision a lot easier. I think (hope) the safety issue is relative to the performance the car is capable of -i.e. I wouldn't expect it to fare any worse than a typical small sedan in a crash at the same speeds so as long as I'm sensible I'm ok I guess! Biggest hurdle now is to convince the wife that it's the right decision

    Re: advice on 360 as daily driver

    i drive my CS every day. it works fine. what would i rather be driving? nothing comes to mind.

    you're gonna die; why not enjoy life today?

    most reliability issues in new F's are caused by NON-USE.

    Re: advice on 360 as daily driver

    Sir watt to the rescue!

    Re: advice on 360 as daily driver

    Quote:
    Lars996 said:
    But honestly... 5-10k is not a heavily usage - or? I mean, I drive with my daily BMW 70k a year. I could do this with the 996, too. But - I wouldn't do this with a Ferrari. I think this car is just not made for. Also - the point Rossi brought in, its to much visability with such a car, to much jealousy!



    Fair point, 5K-10K mi/yr isn't heavy, but limitation is really that most 360 guys have 3-4 cars and various time commitments, etc. limiting the possible use of any one car....just haven't heard of 360 sitting in shop as a rate-limiting issue. But have heard of '02 360Spider w/70K miles w/apparently no issues...it sold for roughly $140K on ebay a few mths back.

    nberry, the DOT's standards are dubious at best...isn't this the same DOT that OK'd the Corvair, the Ford Pinto, all kinds of rollover-prone SUVs, etc etc

    Re: advice on 360 as daily driver

    Quote:
    9966c2 said:
    Biggest hurdle now is to convince the wife that it's the right decision


    Is your wife buying the car? Didn't think so It should be your decision, go for it

    Re: advice on 360 as daily driver

    watt said:


    most reliability issues in new F's are caused by NON-USE.



    Great point!!

    Re: advice on 360 as daily driver

    I used my '02 360 quite a bit but still ran into a few problems. The F1 system was far from smooth, needed a new clutch at 5K miles (covered under warranty), broken hose resulting in no AC and a few minor interior issues (broken ashtray, passenger side door handle became loose, CD player doing strange things).

    If I were you I'd keep the 996 and add the 360 to your stable. I was in a similar situation a couple of years ago and I foolishly sold my 996C2 Cab thinking that the 360 would handle all of my sportscar needs. I realized that the 360 was close to, but definitely not a daily driver so I needed a second car. I ended up with a 350Z as my 2nd car and immediately missed the 911, 6 months later I bought another 911 to fill the void.

    The 360 is great, don't get me wrong, but it does not have the daily drivability of a 911. Plus, having a 911 and a 360 will help you appreciate the two cars much more.

    Let me know if you have any questions that I can answer.

    Re: advice on 360 as daily driver

    "Is your wife buying the car? Didn't think so It should be your decision, go for it"

    JP66...sigh...in an ideal world

    raz - thanks man. I think that may be the best option in the end (though wife seriously won't be amused then!)

    Side point - I drove next to a 355 today and boy does it sound fantastic. Even moving off from the lights very slowly the exhaust note gave me the impression it was trying damn hard to break into song. Have driven next to a 360 before it does not seem to sound the same - still nice though but this 355 must've had a sports exhaust.

    Re: advice on 360 as daily driver

    The sound of the 355 is better than that of the 360 IMO.

    Re: advice on 360 as daily driver

    Quote:
    rossi said:
    The sound of the 355 is better than that of the 360 IMO.



    Rossi, are you comparing stock 355 vs stock 360 exhaust? Do you think comparo still holds if both fitted w/optimum Tubi/other aftermkt exhaust? Has anyone heard this new F CS-like exhaust available on non-CS 360s?

    Re: advice on 360 as daily driver

    9966C2,
    Driving a 360 as a daily driver depends on where you live. Is it warm a lot of the year like Cal.? But weather aside, yes you can drive a 360 daily if you want to. As someone mentioned here if you have the financial ability to have both a 911 and a 360 life is very good and yes you will grow to love both cars more. You will see the specialness in the way they are built, designed, and how they feel to drive.
    The primary reason that 355 or 360 costs more in repairs if not driven is that both are designed to be driven. The more Ferrari has worked to make the cars dependable means drive them more not garage queens. I will give you this thought, it is the same as telling the best athlete (whatever your choice, tennis player, basketball player, track runner, Lance Armstrong, soccer player, etc) to got out and do what they do best athelteically for only a couple days a month and then don't do anything but just sit still for the rest of the month. The more you do this the worse it gets. Great sportscars like the 360 and 911 do not like to just sit for long periods without being used and then run hard when they go out. It is better to use it more than less.
    And of course the reason to buy a great car like this is to enjoy driving it.
    Also, as someone has discussed it is different driving a Ferrai. You do get more attention and it is not always good. It is everything about a Ferrari that causes this. It's price, styling, sound, performance and rare it is to see one (again depending on where you live). This all adds to sometimes bad attention. But given all that it is such a great car to drive (360) that when you are driving it all that can go away. And again someone has mentioned this. They are so correct you can have the worest day at work you have ever had. Get into the 360 and drive home you can't but help smile and let it all go. By the time you are home it is all gone.
    One last point. F1 transmission is not an automatic transmission in that it does not mind sitting in rush hour traffic. It hates this and is not good to do to it on a regular basis. I personally prefer the manual 6 speed. It gives me more of what it means to drive a Ferrari. There is nothing like the feeling of driving a Ferrari manual. It is pure driving pleasure. But as with anything like this kind of purchase it is a personal one. Ultimately if you choose to buy a 360 either F1 or manual you will love it.

    Best wishes and happy travels, cheers

    Re: advice on 360 as daily driver

    thanks so much ArunK - Great analogy with the athletes. Yes I am lucky to have warm weather, and financially a 996 and a 360 will not mean I have to sell the house but it's not exectly spare change to me if you know what I mean. But life is short and no point waiting till I'm too old or sick to enjoy it so it is something I am thinking about.
    Yes I do like manuals but that downshift blip on the F1 is something I really like sooo much. Ultimately buying used so other factors may be the deciding ones - condition, mileage, maintenance history, warranties.
    thanks - my best wishes to you as well.

    Re: advice on 360 as daily driver

    Thank you for your comments. I do agree with you the F1 down shifts are amazing. And yes buying and owning both a 911 and a 360 is not a small amount of money to spend by any means. And as much as the 360 is better than the F355. Both are terrific cars. I personally have always loved the way the F355 looks. When I first saw it in pictures I thought wow and then I got to see it in person and it was really wow. But as much as I like the way it looks I loved driving it. To me it is one of the classic looking Ferraris. I miss mine and have at times thought of getting another one.
    In regards to buying used. Again I agree it will depend on what you find in the market that you like for all reasons, price, year, equipment, condition, etc. Also one other thing to take into consideration as the F430 gets closer to being released it will effect 360 prices. And again all this depends on where you live and how close the F430's release is in your market. The smart owners who care about the used prices over driving will consider selling sooner than later and some will sell way before the F430 is released. So, I don't know what your time frame is to getting a Ferrari but your timing is a good one.

    Best Of Luck and Fun Driving

    Re: advice on 360 as daily driver

    Quote:
    9966c2 said:
    I drove next to a 355 today and boy does it sound fantastic. Even moving off from the lights very slowly the exhaust note gave me the impression it was trying damn hard to break into song.


    Well, just as long as it wasn't a soprano.

    Quote:
    9966c2 said:
    Have driven next to a 360 before it does not seem to sound the same.


    Not a castrato?

    Re: advice on 360 as daily driver

    Quote:
    VKSF said:
    Quote:
    rossi said:
    The sound of the 355 is better than that of the 360 IMO.



    Rossi, are you comparing stock 355 vs stock 360 exhaust? Do you think comparo still holds if both fitted w/optimum Tubi/other aftermkt exhaust? Has anyone heard this new F CS-like exhaust available on non-CS 360s?



    Of course I'm talking about stock exhaust. You can certainly improve sound by an aftermarket exhaust, but if you want to compare, you should refer to the stock versions. Personally I'm not very fond of the aftermarkets parts, but getting a CS-like exhaust directly from Maranello now is a different thing...

     
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