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    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Whoopsy:
    SciFrog:

    At LAST quarter pace Tesla will sell over 320,000 cars in the next year while Porsche wants to sell 7,000 Taycans. Big yawn. The last thing Tesla is scared about is Porsche, especially when it is not sold in quantities for years and does not have a price tag.

    Yes the interior is not at quite top of the segment. But does it matter? I don’t think so because so far Tesla interior with their minimalist design and giant screens is just too different. They don’t compete. And say what you want but a Porsche doing 0-60 in 3.5s when Tesla did it years ago much faster than that will make the vast majority of people at least blink. Plus there is no doubt Tesla will make better interiors when they fell they will need to, and not before. And they can do it anytime they want since they do not follow the 4+3=7 years rule of other manufacturers.

    Design wise, Tesla might not be the best around but this taycan front in pics does not look good at all. And the interior tries to be futuristic but the steering wheel design is completely out of place.

    And you do not even aknowledge the power of OTA updates and no dealership and price haggling model.

     

    That's exactly the same mentality of Nokia, Motorola when Apple joins the party in the phone market.

    The no dealership thing is pretty good, I have to say, for the Americans, no ADM on cars. But the rest of the world had been enjoying that for the longest time, new cars are not sold above MSRP so it's a moot point outside of USA.

    OTA updates are over rated. Maybe others will follows maybe they won't, it's definitely not a deal breaker for most people. Pushed updates are only good if they are bug free. BTW, did you know Porsche already can do OTA updates on the navigation maps? My Cayenne just had that a while ago when it was connected to wifi for the downloads.

     

    You phone analogy is not on point imho, Nokia and Moto are the Volt and Prius, Tesla is Apple, the rest are Samsung and Android...

    OTA updates and even more so constant car updates is critical for an appliance like a Tesla. They don’t have to wait 4 or 3 years to make improvements. I have always hated the fact that Porsche always refused to make improvements after the fact. Bluetooth for example could not be added, or DVD based navigation and such, what a shame, just because they want to force you to buy a new car instead. People here are downplaying the response Tesla can have ONCE competitors really show up. You don’t really think Tesla doesn’t have plans to improve whatever they need to, do you? angry And they are not held by inventory and dealer scams like others are. They can just turn the knob as needed, that is a massive advantage down the road. Everyone here paper benches the vaporware Taycan with no price tag vs a 3 year old (at least) model S. Let’s just wait and see what happens when the cars are readily available in numbers.

    And Tesla has not even produced their killer car yet with the model Y. Sedans are dead, people buying them now is mostly because they have to (cheaper price). People buy model 3 because that’s the entry ticket to Tesla and solid EV experience (Volt and Leafs are in a much lower segment).


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    This spyshot from earlier this year gives a pretty good indication of the final look of the front of the production Taycan as there is very little disguise on it. The lower air intake has widened considerably and the lip spoiler has gone. The pronounced front and rear wheel bulges in the bodywork have been dramatically reduced in order for the glasshouse of the cabin to be pushed outwards to increase interior space. The  "supercar" like sculpting of the lower body skirt area of the concept has also been removed from the production car. The end result of these changes, as RC has alluded to, gives a very different feel to design making it much closer in side profile to the Panamera.

    1539697241702Concept vs production.JPG


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    The side profile comparison shows just how much of the elegance of the concept has been lost in the translation to the production version. The pillar-less side glass treatment has given way to a substantial and clumsy looking B pillar and the windscreen rake angle looks to have steepened. The front door length has been reduced with more length added to the rear doors which has a marked effect upon the look of the proportions. The loss of the pronounced curvature of the front wings which look liked they had been taughtly pulled over the front wheels on the concept has a very significant visual impact and turns the design into something far more conventional. Likewise the switch from the pronounced sculpted side sills to a much flatter lower side body design robs the production version of the glamour of the concept.

    Concept vs production 2.JPG


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    The design study is the girl you think you took home after too many drinks at the bar. The production version is what you wake up next to with a hangover. I’m very disappointed. Add the Porsche price and Tesla has no worries. 


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Leawood911:

    The design study is the girl you think you took home after too many drinks at the bar. The production version is what you wake up next to with a hangover. I’m very disappointed. Add the Porsche price and Tesla has no worries. 

    I agree, it's not a stunner. It looks like a mildly updated, smaller panamera. Very little is special. Probably the best word is Staid. 

    The guys at Audi got their hands on it when it should have been the guys at Lamborghini...

    Another Porsche bean counter special. 


    --

     

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region

     


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Read through the last few pages of the developing Tesla v. Porsche Taycan duel and can only add the following on the performance of Audi’s EV crossover.

    http://www.autogefuehl.de/2018/10/13/audi-e-tron-fahrbericht-handling-und-allrad/

    I’ve read several comments from a poster or two that Audi’s technology is five years behind Tesla.  This nearly one hour in length video proves otherwise and while the Audi’s acceleration times aren’t a direct match for the corresponding Tesla Model X, the Audi does appear to set a new benchmark for dynamics.  Audis, historically, have had flat torque curves and one would expect the same with the e-tron.   Therefore, Audi is willing to attenuate the initial torque peak, and hence initial acceleration, to deliver a traditional drive experience in an electric format.  

    Based on this development, the Porsche Taycan must be stellar in its dynamics with its more advanced platform.

    Oh, Audi has announced that when US regulations allow it to offer matrix lighting, Audi will deliver an over-the-air upgrade to those cars that are upgradable, degrading another so-call advantage of Tesla.

     


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Glad to see that Tesla is making the needle move and the dinosaurs very slowly getting out of hibernation smiley

    Yet they have a very long way to go:

     

    https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/elon-musk-tesla-autopilot-chip-upgrade-6-months/


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    SciFrog:

    Glad to see that Tesla is making the needle move and the dinosaurs very slowly getting out of hibernation smiley

    Yet they have a very long way to go:

     

    https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/elon-musk-tesla-autopilot-chip-upgrade-6-months/

    Dinosaurs hibernated?  


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    CGX car nut:
    SciFrog:

    Glad to see that Tesla is making the needle move and the dinosaurs very slowly getting out of hibernation smiley

    Yet they have a very long way to go:

     

    https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/elon-musk-tesla-autopilot-chip-upgrade-6-months/

    Dinosaurs hibernated?  

    Smiley


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    farina:

    RC: I really know what I´m writing: The Mission e was the concept and was shown on many exhibitions. And of course the Taycan is the name of the production car. The Taycan was promoted in a teaser on June 2018 and I´ve put the rear of the Mission e concept above (white) and the rear of the Taycan (teaser) under it. They look nearly like the same. The pic Whoopsy posted shows a computer generated image which resembles the Mission e concept. But if you have heard and seen about a thing almost like THIS (Taycan/final thing), i would be very glad! But the front-fenders of this CGI-picture have nothing in common with these fenders of the prototype, which we can see in many spy-shots. And that is the reason for my confusion!

    The Taycan does not look 100% like the Mission E concept, not even 90%. The difference is in the details, you need to look carefully to notice the differences. Once the final car will be shown, you'll understand. I remember the final product to be a bit more objectified but I leave the final verdict to the crowd. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    ISUK:

    The side profile comparison shows just how much of the elegance of the concept has been lost in the translation to the production version. The pillar-less side glass treatment has given way to a substantial and clumsy looking B pillar and the windscreen rake angle looks to have steepened. The front door length has been reduced with more length added to the rear doors which has a marked effect upon the look of the proportions. The loss of the pronounced curvature of the front wings which look liked they had been taughtly pulled over the front wheels on the concept has a very significant visual impact and turns the design into something far more conventional. Likewise the switch from the pronounced sculpted side sills to a much flatter lower side body design robs the production version of the glamour of the concept.

    Really nice comparisons, thanks Iain! I was struggling to find why the Taycan looks so much less exciting than the Mission E concept. Your shots really help. I now also understand why people say it looks very much like the concept, despite the obvious decrease in wowfactor.


    --


    Porsche, separates Le Mans from Le Boys


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    RC:
    farina:

    RC: I really know what I´m writing: The Mission e was the concept and was shown on many exhibitions. And of course the Taycan is the name of the production car. The Taycan was promoted in a teaser on June 2018 and I´ve put the rear of the Mission e concept above (white) and the rear of the Taycan (teaser) under it. They look nearly like the same. The pic Whoopsy posted shows a computer generated image which resembles the Mission e concept. But if you have heard and seen about a thing almost like THIS (Taycan/final thing), i would be very glad! But the front-fenders of this CGI-picture have nothing in common with these fenders of the prototype, which we can see in many spy-shots. And that is the reason for my confusion!

    The Taycan does not look 100% like the Mission E concept, not even 90%. The difference is in the details, you need to look carefully to notice the differences. Once the final car will be shown, you'll understand. I remember the final product to be a bit more objectified but I leave the final verdict to the crowd. Smiley

    RC: THIS comment helps me! It´s ok that they have objectified some parts of the car (for example for every day use), but I hope they´ll keep the proportions and the shape of the car, especially the nice fenders (and the teaser images demonstrate this). If the car looks 80-85% like the Mission e, I would be very glad.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    SciFrog:

    You phone analogy is not on point imho, Nokia and Moto are the Volt and Prius, Tesla is Apple, the rest are Samsung and Android...

    OTA updates and even more so constant car updates is critical for an appliance like a Tesla. They don’t have to wait 4 or 3 years to make improvements. I have always hated the fact that Porsche always refused to make improvements after the fact. Bluetooth for example could not be added, or DVD based navigation and such, what a shame, just because they want to force you to buy a new car instead. People here are downplaying the response Tesla can have ONCE competitors really show up. You don’t really think Tesla doesn’t have plans to improve whatever they need to, do you? angry And they are not held by inventory and dealer scams like others are. They can just turn the knob as needed, that is a massive advantage down the road. Everyone here paper benches the vaporware Taycan with no price tag vs a 3 year old (at least) model S. Let’s just wait and see what happens when the cars are readily available in numbers.

    And Tesla has not even produced their killer car yet with the model Y. Sedans are dead, people buying them now is mostly because they have to (cheaper price). People buy model 3 because that’s the entry ticket to Tesla and solid EV experience (Volt and Leafs are in a much lower segment).

     

    Hmm, 

    Tesla is first to the market, so even if you use Apple vs Samsung, then it would be Tesla being Samsung, the one that comes in the market first with 'smart phones'.

    Elon has a shit load of plans in his mind of course, but Tesla the company is extremely short of cash to execute any of them, that's the problem, they simply cannot maneuver  Model whatever down the line is a moot point when they can't even make a Model 3 profitable. Actually for the matters both the Model S and Model X too.

    Elon is refusing to produce any low price Model 3 simply because they would lose too much money on each. Right now they are only making fully loaded top spec ones. All those 400k+ deposit holders? In another year or so they will all disappeared, not that they got their cars, but the tax break will disappeared and the ones lining up for a cheap version will be priced out of the market. 

    Porsche is not short on cash, and if they are, the plans for listing the company is already drawn up, using Ferrari valuations the potential listing will be worth 80 big if not more. That's another big chest of war ammo. 

    It was a nice story, David vs Goliath as Tesla takes on the big boys, but reality is quite different at times than what people dream up.

     


    --

     

     


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    farina:
    RC:
    farina:

    RC: I really know what I´m writing: The Mission e was the concept and was shown on many exhibitions. And of course the Taycan is the name of the production car. The Taycan was promoted in a teaser on June 2018 and I´ve put the rear of the Mission e concept above (white) and the rear of the Taycan (teaser) under it. They look nearly like the same. The pic Whoopsy posted shows a computer generated image which resembles the Mission e concept. But if you have heard and seen about a thing almost like THIS (Taycan/final thing), i would be very glad! But the front-fenders of this CGI-picture have nothing in common with these fenders of the prototype, which we can see in many spy-shots. And that is the reason for my confusion!

    The Taycan does not look 100% like the Mission E concept, not even 90%. The difference is in the details, you need to look carefully to notice the differences. Once the final car will be shown, you'll understand. I remember the final product to be a bit more objectified but I leave the final verdict to the crowd. Smiley

    RC: THIS comment helps me! It´s ok that they have objectified some parts of the car (for example for every day use), but I hope they´ll keep the proportions and the shape of the car, especially the nice fenders (and the teaser images demonstrate this). If the car looks 80-85% like the Mission e, I would be very glad.

     

    This photo comparison actually shows quite a lot...if you have a good imagination. Smiley

    Conceptvsproduction2.JPG


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Here is a rear view comparison. The clean lines of the concept's rear bumper have had to give way to practical use considerations so the smooth curvature of the rear PU has been sacrificed to create the recess for the trunk opening. The rear diffuser has also been widened considerably and it's design altered significantly. The loss of the pronounced wide bodywork over the rear wheels is also very evident with the cabin glass house increasing in width and height for rear passenger accommodation. The shape of the rear window has had to be altered to provide a practical rear door aperture. In an attempt to mimic the shape of the glass on the concept the designers have utilised the trick of using large blacked out areas on the rear screen. Whilst this effect works reasonably well on a black car it will not be as successful on lighter colours. The concept looks to have had better rearward vision than the production car which has a much shallower depth of vision angle judging from these photo's.

    These changes combine to reduce the striking visual impact of the teardrop shape of the main cabin of the concept which was accentuated by the wide hips of the rear bodywork.

    Concept vs production 3.JPG


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Good comparison shots in terms of approximate size against the Tesla Model S. It also looks like Porsche may be testing two types of roof panel - one conventional, one with the slight "double bubble" effect of the concept.

    Mules vs Tesla S.JPG

    Mules vs Tesla S 2.JPG

    Mules rear.JPG


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    The exhaust pipes are fake and part of the prototype disguise? Or there is a chance of hybrid drivetrains?


    --

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    reginos:

    The exhaust pipes are fake and part of the prototype disguise? Or there is a chance of hybrid drivetrains?

    They’re fakes as part of the camouflage.


    --


    Porsche, separates Le Mans from Le Boys


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    They're testing the base and S prototypesSmiley


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    ISUK:

    Here is a rear view comparison. The clean lines of the concept's rear bumper have had to give way to practical use considerations so the smooth curvature of the rear PU has been sacrificed to create the recess for the trunk opening. The rear diffuser has also been widened considerably and it's design altered significantly. The loss of the pronounced wide bodywork over the rear wheels is also very evident with the cabin glass house increasing in width and height for rear passenger accommodation. The shape of the rear window has had to be altered to provide a practical rear door aperture. In an attempt to mimic the shape of the glass on the concept the designers have utilised the trick of using large blacked out areas on the rear screen. Whilst this effect works reasonably well on a black car it will not be as successful on lighter colours. The concept looks to have had better rearward vision than the production car which has a much shallower depth of vision angle judging from these photo's.

    These changes combine to reduce the striking visual impact of the teardrop shape of the main cabin of the concept which was accentuated by the wide hips of the rear bodywork.

    Concept vs production 3.JPG

    „The shape of the rear window has had to be altered to provide a practical rear door aperture. In an attempt to mimic the shape of the glass on the concept the designers have utilised the trick of using large blacked out areas on the rear screen.“

    Yes, very good! And please look at this picture... Smileyprototype_vs_sketch.jpg


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    This is the area of glass I was referring to that the designers have had to try and disguise with black out sections to mimic the rear screen shape of the concept. All of the area outlined in red was metal work on the concept but has had to form part of the tailgate opening. Porsche evidently have decided that the rear trunk space is fairly small (in terms of height) so instead of creating a more aesthetically pleasing sedan style trunk lid beneath the rear screen - which would have made loading luggage extremely difficult I would surmise - they have opted to create a more useful, but ultimately uglier, rear hatch like the Panamera.

    Concept vs production 4.JPG


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    ISUK:

    This is the area of glass I was referring to that the designers have had to try and disguise with black out sections to mimic the rear screen shape of the concept. All of the area outlined in red was metal work on the concept but has had to form part of the tailgate opening. Porsche evidently have decided that the rear trunk space is fairly small (in terms of height) so instead of creating a more aesthetically pleasing sedan style trunk lid beneath the rear screen - which would have made loading luggage extremely difficult I would surmise - they have opted to create a more useful, but ultimately uglier, rear hatch like the Panamera.

     

    It's probably difficult to put your two golf bags in a rear hatch like Mission E, I can understand the decision 


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    RC:
    farina:
    RC:
    farina:

    RC: I really know what I´m writing: The Mission e was the concept and was shown on many exhibitions. And of course the Taycan is the name of the production car. The Taycan was promoted in a teaser on June 2018 and I´ve put the rear of the Mission e concept above (white) and the rear of the Taycan (teaser) under it. They look nearly like the same. The pic Whoopsy posted shows a computer generated image which resembles the Mission e concept. But if you have heard and seen about a thing almost like THIS (Taycan/final thing), i would be very glad! But the front-fenders of this CGI-picture have nothing in common with these fenders of the prototype, which we can see in many spy-shots. And that is the reason for my confusion!

    The Taycan does not look 100% like the Mission E concept, not even 90%. The difference is in the details, you need to look carefully to notice the differences. Once the final car will be shown, you'll understand. I remember the final product to be a bit more objectified but I leave the final verdict to the crowd. Smiley

    RC: THIS comment helps me! It´s ok that they have objectified some parts of the car (for example for every day use), but I hope they´ll keep the proportions and the shape of the car, especially the nice fenders (and the teaser images demonstrate this). If the car looks 80-85% like the Mission e, I would be very glad.

     

    This photo comparison actually shows quite a lot...if you have a good imagination. Smiley

    Conceptvsproduction2.JPG

    It looks pretty close to the concept, but a disappointing area is the side windows. Windows on the concept had a narrow shape, meantime on the production mule it looks like the front door side window is to big (high), which makes the whole roofline (from the windshield) look bumpy.


    --


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    ISUK:

    The side profile comparison shows just how much of the elegance of the concept has been lost in the translation to the production version. The pillar-less side glass treatment has given way to a substantial and clumsy looking B pillar and the windscreen rake angle looks to have steepened. The front door length has been reduced with more length added to the rear doors which has a marked effect upon the look of the proportions. The loss of the pronounced curvature of the front wings which look liked they had been taughtly pulled over the front wheels on the concept has a very significant visual impact and turns the design into something far more conventional. Likewise the switch from the pronounced sculpted side sills to a much flatter lower side body design robs the production version of the glamour of the concept.

    Concept vs production 2.JPG

    +1 Smiley


    --



    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    The renders look good


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    very cool ! hope it's going to look like this !


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    The style looks nice. Pity it will not have a proper engine.!


    --

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Mission E on tour Down Under with a senior citizen

     

    CDFB0865-6E78-462C-83F3-D0CE8AC5D2CE.jpeg


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Cannot fix the picture but ironically appropriate  indecision


     
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