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    Re: Panamera Turbo doesn’t seem to stand a chance against the new M5

    bluelines:
    SciFrog:
    RC:

     

    Long story short: My son said after this encounter that he doesn't understand why someone would get s sportscar if you can have the same performance in a family sedan. Of course there is much more to a sportscar than straight line acceleration performance but he has a point. High performance sedans definitely make a lot of sense but this is why I don't understand Porsche's approach: The Panamera Turbo S as a hybrid makes NO sense at all. 

    Is your son reflecting your views? Does an Alpine HAS to be faster than a sedan to be a sport car? Smiley He does not have a point IMHO and high speed highway acceleration is only important in Germany.

    +1

    Straight line performance Smiley

    RC, put your son in a GT3 RS and drive him around the Ring until he turns green... then he will understand why people buy sports cars Smiley Making a car go fast in a straight line is zero effort these days. Doing the same through bends and curves with pinpoint steering and heavy braking is something entirely different.

    ...and doing it more than just one lap.


    --

    2018 White 911 GT3


    Re: Panamera Turbo doesn’t seem to stand a chance against the new M5

    Guys, re-read my post where I mention what my son said. I know I write a lot but this time, I think my English is better than "someone's" Schwizerdütsch. 😉

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Panamera Turbo doesn’t seem to stand a chance against the new M5

    Your son speaks swissgerman? 


    --

    2017 991.2 Carrera 4 GTS | GT Silver Metallic - The GT3 Killah!
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: Panamera Turbo doesn’t seem to stand a chance against the new M5

    bluelines:

    Your son speaks swissgerman? 

    I was referring to you. 😂

    I understand it perfectly but I speak only a few words. Btw: I didn't learn it during my school days in St. Gallen, I learned it watching Swiss TV when I was a kid. 😉


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Panamera Turbo doesn’t seem to stand a chance against the new M5

    Had Porsche gone E class size they could not have charged the price they did. And since the Panamera is already overpriced...

    Personally I am much more impressed by a Cayenne doing sub 8 mins at the ring than a Panamera doing 7.38...


    Re: Panamera Turbo doesn’t seem to stand a chance against the new M5

     I hesitate to post a comment, in the midst of all this Panamera Turbo bashing, but I just returned from a four-day-thousand mile trip in my Panamera Turbo and found it to be absolutely splendid.  It had more than enough room for me, my wife and my 6 foot 2 teenage son, Drew rave comments on its design and styling from countless onlookers, was stone stable in driving rain, and was absolutely flawless in its performance. Plenty powerful enough for me, and I am thrilled to be owning and enjoying this fabulous car.


    Re: Panamera Turbo doesn’t seem to stand a chance against the new M5

    Wonderbar:

     I hesitate to post a comment, in the midst of all this Panamera Turbo bashing, but I just returned from a four-day-thousand mile trip in my Panamera Turbo and found it to be absolutely splendid.  It had more than enough room for me, my wife and my 6 foot 2 teenage son, Drew rave comments on its design and styling from countless onlookers, was stone stable in driving rain, and was absolutely flawless in its performance. Plenty powerful enough for me, and I am thrilled to be owning and enjoying this fabulous car.

    Good for you. Smiley I chose the E63S over the Panamera Turbo because A. it is faster and sounds better and B. it is much cheaper (lease). For the same money, I would have chosen the Panamera Turbo as well...oh wait...the Turbo SSmiley Smiley

    Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Panamera Turbo doesn’t seem to stand a chance against the new M5

     Thanks RC, good response. On the price comparison issue, I’ll be the first to admit that—at 76 years old – I can be a bit “desperately extravagant“. wink


    Re: Panamera Turbo doesn’t seem to stand a chance against the new M5

    Wonderbar:

     Thanks RC, good response. On the price comparison issue, I’ll be the first to admit that—at 76 years old – I can be a bit “desperately extravagant“. wink

    For the same money, I would still have taken the E63S because of the sound. Minus the sound, same money? Panamera Turbo S, no doubt.

    To bring the whole thing into a perspective: E63S fully loaded (Edition 1) worth 164k EUR costs me 1599 EUR per month (incl. VAT). Panamera Turbo (not even S!) worth 164k EUR would have been 2200 EUR per month (Cayenne Turbo, same price, 2300 EUR). No thanks, this is my family car, not my weekend fun car (where I would pay more just to have what I really want).

    So the Panamera Turbo (not S!) would have been 600 EUR more per month(!). Taking the whole 36 months lease period, this would have meant 21600 EUR more. Ouch. Not to forget that the E63S sounds much better and is faster.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Panamera Turbo doesn’t seem to stand a chance against the new M5

     Makes sense. Over the last few years I have reduced my car load, having sold three long-held cars, and now have only three cars in our family.   Two of these three are fairly utilitarian, used by my wife and teenage son. I drive my Panamera Turbo daily, so it’s a combination sports car, luxury car and hauler of my various tennis and other gear.  Probably exactly the demographic that Porsche identified for the Panamera. 

    I should add that the Panamera is far more sporty, stylish, personal, and surprisingly roomier for passengers than my previous two Cayennes. 

     


    Re: Panamera Turbo doesn’t seem to stand a chance against the new M5

    Smiley I like the new Panamera a lot but it has reached a price level I cannot afford...or let me rephrase...don't want to afford anymore. I love Porsche, I have been loyal to the brand for many years but lately, they just don't offer what I am looking for and this is how it is.

    Maybe if they would have started with the GT model "invasion" earlier, I would have hopped on the GT train but now it is too late. I hoped for a 960, probably not going to happen, so my next stop probably Audi again...or Lamborghini...or even McLaren. Time will tell.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Panamera Turbo doesn’t seem to stand a chance against the new M5

    Wonderbar:

     I hesitate to post a comment, in the midst of all this Panamera Turbo bashing, but I just returned from a four-day-thousand mile trip in my Panamera Turbo and found it to be absolutely splendid.  It had more than enough room for me, my wife and my 6 foot 2 teenage son, Drew rave comments on its design and styling from countless onlookers, was stone stable in driving rain, and was absolutely flawless in its performance. Plenty powerful enough for me, and I am thrilled to be owning and enjoying this fabulous car.

    Agree with your POV. This purely performance based stats only cover a fraction of what the Panamera stand for. How many full bore standing starts would you do with a car like that, let alone posting laptimes. Smiley

    What counts is how it looks, feels, how it drives and the image it conveys. It's a beautiful product IMO, much more so than the predecessor. I like an E63 as well, but it's a different type of car imo.


    --

    1992 Mercedes-Benz W124 500E  / 2008 Porsche 911 GT3 RS (sold) / 2011 Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG Performance / 2014 BMW-Alpina D3 biturbo Touring / 2018 Porsche 911 GT3 Clubsport


    Re: Panamera Turbo doesn’t seem to stand a chance against the new M5

    The Panamera probably competes more with the Mercedes S class than the E class or BMW 5 series. I like the build quality of the Panamera a lot, also the interior design. I just wish Porsche would impress with the performance/engine/drivetrain part as well.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Panamera Turbo doesn’t seem to stand a chance against the new M5

    Granted it was a long time ago but the Panamera turbo I drove was boring...


    Re: Panamera Turbo doesn’t seem to stand a chance against the new M5

    SciFrog:

    Granted it was a long time ago but the Panamera turbo I drove was boring...

    The new one is really top notch (quality, interior, drive feel, not so much sound) but all this perfection is probably also a bit boring. The exhaust sound is really bad though, a company like Porsche should know better. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Panamera Turbo doesn’t seem to stand a chance against the new M5

    If one is looking for a much sportier alternative to Mercedes S-class or BMW 7 series, my Panamera Turbo S e-Hybrid is just right.  It has plenty of power, doesn't feel the extra 250 kg in the corners and is as fast a 4-door as I'll ever need.

    Expensive?  Of course.

    The real clincher for me (now that the others have AWD for winter) is the rear hatch (luggage/boxed-freight) access.  I have all my e-shopping packages delivered to the office where someone can sign for them and no one will steal them off my porch.  The Panamera hatch is the only non-SUV/crossover vehicle that accommodates UPS/Amazon cartons of a certain size.

    I think it's about perfect for my uses.  And, I get plenty of admiring looks from passers by.


    --

    Mike

    918 Spyder + 991.2 GT2 RS +Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S + Panamera Turbo S E-Hybrid +  BMW Z8 + BMW 3.0 CSi + Bentley Arnage T


    Re: Panamera Turbo doesn’t seem to stand a chance against the new M5

    Wonderbar:

     I hesitate to post a comment, in the midst of all this Panamera Turbo bashing, but I just returned from a four-day-thousand mile trip in my Panamera Turbo and found it to be absolutely splendid.  It had more than enough room for me, my wife and my 6 foot 2 teenage son, Drew rave comments on its design and styling from countless onlookers, was stone stable in driving rain, and was absolutely flawless in its performance. Plenty powerful enough for me, and I am thrilled to be owning and enjoying this fabulous car.

    I can fully understand your summation with one exception -" Drew rave comments on its design and styling from countless onlookers" - the car is a big improvement on the first generation but is still by no means a looker.


    Re: Panamera Turbo doesn’t seem to stand a chance against the new M5

    Regarding the looks, I can certainly understand your comment. When I first saw the new Panamera, I thought it was boring, not exciting enough.  Understated was a good adjective. I have honestly come to appreciate the styling, and think when compared  to other cars on the road, it is extremely sophisticated, quite unique. And I’m being very honest when I say that virtually everywhere  I go, people comment on how wonderful it looks. I guess it’s a lesson in not going too far with new styling, so that folks can see the car within a larger context to appreciate how different it really is. So I would say, yes it’s not a “looker“ but it certainly presents a very fine and unique impression. (I did add side skirts to my configuration, which I do think helps the car’s overall look . I will also say that my son, who is a car not, always push the spoiler up wherever we go).  

    Regarding sound, this is an absolutely fascinating topic. From my conversations with Porsche sound engineers, I do know that Porsche is struggling with sound as the Mission E had other products come to market.   And, as I wrote in  an article I posted on another forum, I recall vividly a conversation with a young professional Porsche driver who told me very honestly that he is “over sound“. His 30 something generation, he says, wants  high technology, efficiency and performance rather than sound. Also, as I also posted before, I think my next car will be a Mission E, and I will know then if I really miss the sound that I’ve loved over the years, with my 904 GTS and several other cars with Ruf exhausts, etc.

    Finally, Mike, can you compare the regular Turbo to the Turbo S e-hybrid? Would appreciate your thoughts..


    Re: Panamera Turbo doesn’t seem to stand a chance against the new M5

    I much prefer the original Panamera design, there was something really special about it. The new rears like the Cayenne one also with the black plastic look generic.


    Re: Panamera Turbo doesn’t seem to stand a chance against the new M5

    I have a good friend, a long time Porsche enthusiastist, who agrees with you about the original design. To each his own...


    Re: Panamera Turbo doesn’t seem to stand a chance against the new M5

    The original Panamera especially the facelifted version with the more harmonious rear, has aged very well. It is a design with eccentricity but at the same time pleasing. Similar to the 928 styling which is more appreciated now than when it was new.

    The current model stands out from the 3-box design competitors but it is like an enlarged 911. No imagination from the design studio? However, the statement it makes for its owner is totally different than  the S class and the 7 series, its more direct competitiors.

    The Panamera owner is more akin to those who buy M5 or AMG E-class i.e.  keen drivers, who probably also own or have owned sportscars, and also very sexy guys smiley


    --

     

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

     


    Re: Panamera Turbo doesn’t seem to stand a chance against the new M5

    The only mistake in the design that they made with the first gen was that ungainly hump. For the rest, the Panny definitely has a certain road presence, especially viewed from 3/4 rear. I do like the new generation as well though. I don't like it in the way that I like the 911 as a car, after all, it still is a 4-door saloon, but still.


    --


    Porsche, separates Le Mans from Le Boys


    Re: Panamera Turbo doesn’t seem to stand a chance against the new M5

    Let's get real: the original "hunchback of Notre Dame" design was flawed and ugly. And comparing it to a timeless design like the 928 is blasphemous, imho.

     


     
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