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    Re: Next two brands to offer Manual Gearbox?

    SciFrog:
    CGX car nut:
    MKW:
    SciFrog:

    Totally disagree. Manual is a thing of the past. I own two manual cars but I will not buy a new car with manual, makes no sense whatsoever on modern cars with the advances of the technology, even more so on performance cars.

     

    everyone on this site who truly cares what YOU like ...raise your hand 

    Smiley

     Deleted post? Sneaky... Since when one feels empowered to make a personal attack when one posts their opinion?Smiley

    I never deleted my post.  There is no personal attack on it, either.


    Re: Next two brands to offer Manual Gearbox?

    JimFlat6:

    Now if Porsche would just Standardize PDK gear lever pattern between the GT3 and the rest that might be a step forward. angry

    They actually did do that with the 991.2 Carrera/S


    --

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: Next two brands to offer Manual Gearbox?

    PDK/DCT remains the the better choice, because........todays drivers enlightened


    Re: Next two brands to offer Manual Gearbox?

    BiTurbo:

    PDK/DCT remains the the better choice, because........todays drivers enlightened

    Actually I would equally say: today's cities.  How many people who can afford performance cars (that are not usually their only car) work/live/commute in a place where the joy of driving is experienced every day in routine driving?  Not many.... most money is in cities, and most (large) cities are not terribly rewarding places to drive - big advantage to any transmission with an auto mode.    


    --

    2011 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S


    Re: Next two brands to offer Manual Gearbox?

    That's why they invented weekend houses for smiley


    Re: Next two brands to offer Manual Gearbox?

    Not specifically about manual gearboxes, but interesting comments about the difference between old and newer cars (it's not just nostalgia):

    http://thegarage.jalopnik.com/what-if-the-best-cars-to-drive-have-already-been-made-1740331121


    --

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: Next two brands to offer Manual Gearbox?

    Grant:

    Not specifically about manual gearboxes, but interesting comments about the difference between old and newer cars (it's not just nostalgia):

    http://thegarage.jalopnik.com/what-if-the-best-cars-to-drive-have-already-been-made-1740331121

    Interesting. Peaked with the GT4. It is all downhill from now, starting with the RS... Smiley


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM


    Re: Next two brands to offer Manual Gearbox?

    bluelines:
    Grant:

    Not specifically about manual gearboxes, but interesting comments about the difference between old and newer cars (it's not just nostalgia):

    http://thegarage.jalopnik.com/what-if-the-best-cars-to-drive-have-already-been-made-1740331121

    Interesting. Peaked with the GT4. It is all downhill from now, starting with the RS... Smiley

    One of the reasons I like the GT4 is that in several ways it's more like an older 911 than a current 911 is...


    --

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: Next two brands to offer Manual Gearbox?

    Grant:
    bluelines:
    Grant:

    Not specifically about manual gearboxes, but interesting comments about the difference between old and newer cars (it's not just nostalgia):

    http://thegarage.jalopnik.com/what-if-the-best-cars-to-drive-have-already-been-made-1740331121

    Interesting. Peaked with the GT4. It is all downhill from now, starting with the RS... Smiley

    One of the reasons I like the GT4 is that in several ways it's more like an older 911 than a current 911 is...

    Exactly! That is one of the big reasons I like it too. It is more 996/997 GT3 than 991.


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM


    Re: Next two brands to offer Manual Gearbox?

    Must keep in mind that cars are not conceived or built in a vacumn. The reason why Ferrari decided to drop the manual had more to deal with performance rather than demand. Ferrari designed their engines, brakes and styling for optimal performance which could only be achieved by using PDK style transmission. To use a manual transmission in state of the art performance car would be similar to using regular gas in a high performance engine. What's the point?

    The argument that a manual is more fun is purely subjective. By far more car enthusiast prefer PDK over manual. For an auto company to provide manual, it must dumb down the car which can't be cheap. 

     


    --

    Of little, to make much: That is the dream of a human life.


    Re: Next two brands to offer Manual Gearbox?

    Systems integration is needed to meet the  dictates of emission laws is one excuse. Building fat little cars with high hp is another.  But so far haven't seen any rennteamers complain about their manual 991.1s.


    Re: Next two brands to offer Manual Gearbox?

    Those who prefer manuals just want a choice. None have argued to take away anyone's loved PDK. On the other hand PDK fans feel the need to take away our choice.  Why can they just rave about how superior it is and leave it that?  I wonder why?  BTW I find the turbo manual very rewarding and not at all cumbersome. I get all of the horses out each day in rapid fashion. I am always amused at how short first is. And how the gearing in the Cayman is incredibly tall. RC is 100% correct that the GT4 was made with the manual because the Standard PDK gearing would even make it too quick. Imagine if they had given it GT3 PDK gearing!!!!


    Re: Next two brands to offer Manual Gearbox?

    Leawood911:

    Imagine if they had given it GT3 PDK gearing!!!!

    Would never work on the highway (gearing too short for an engine with 1,200 rpm less), unless they gave it the GT3 motor too 


    --

     

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

     


    Re: Next two brands to offer Manual Gearbox?

    Grant:
    Leawood911:

    Imagine if they had given it GT3 PDK gearing!!!!

    Would never work on the highway (gearing too short for an engine with 1,200 rpm less), unless they gave it the GT3 motor too 

    ...and even with PDK the GT4 has 100hp less. So it is not like the GT4 would be a big threat to the GT3 and RS even if it had PDK. It would be a few seconds faster on the Ring and that is it. Anyone who has actually driven the car knows this 


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM


    Re: Next two brands to offer Manual Gearbox?

    nberry:

    Must keep in mind that cars are not conceived or built in a vacumn. The reason why Ferrari decided to drop the manual had more to deal with performance rather than demand. Ferrari designed their engines, brakes and styling for optimal performance which could only be achieved by using PDK style transmission. To use a manual transmission in state of the art performance car would be similar to using regular gas in a high performance engine. What's the point?

    The argument that a manual is more fun is purely subjective. By far more car enthusiast prefer PDK over manual. For an auto company to provide manual, it must dumb down the car which can't be cheap. 

     

    More car enthusiasts that want to listen to music with the top down and a drink in their right hand while talking over BT/connected to iPhone/Samsung cellphone ? Smiley

    How can you explain this then Smiley

    Both cars were eqiupped  with Z07 Package

    1. Corvette C7 Z06 *Automatic* Sachsenring lap time  -  1:30,47

    2. Corvette C7 Z06 *Manual* Sachsenring lap time  -  1:30,85

    ** Porsche 918 Spyder WP - 1:30,34

    That's a 0.38s difference.....Smiley

    That dumbed down manual sh*ts on 90% of modern cars with double-clutch and almost as fast as the hypercar 918 Spyder 887hp vs 652hp.


    Re: Next two brands to offer Manual Gearbox?

    Grant:
    bluelines:
    Grant:

    Not specifically about manual gearboxes, but interesting comments about the difference between old and newer cars (it's not just nostalgia):

    http://thegarage.jalopnik.com/what-if-the-best-cars-to-drive-have-already-been-made-1740331121

    Interesting. Peaked with the GT4. It is all downhill from now, starting with the RS... Smiley

    One of the reasons I like the GT4 is that in several ways it's more like an older 911 than a current 911 is...

    Have you owned an older 911? I remember my 993 pretty well and it felt completely different (in a bad way) compared to the GT4. The GT4 feels actually like a 911 GT3 with some minor differences in the steering (I think).


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Next two brands to offer Manual Gearbox?

    RC:

    Have you owned an older 911? I remember my 993 pretty well and it felt completely different (in a bad way) compared to the GT4. The GT4 feels actually like a 911 GT3 with some minor differences in the steering (I think).

    I've owned two 1973 911's and one 993.  As much as I think the GT4 is an excellent modern offering from Porsche (best one in years anywhere near the price), there are some things that I prefer about the older ones (liked my 73's much more than 993, btw).

    There was a big part of me that was hoping the GT4 would be good enough to make me forget about keeping my old 911.  I would love to just sell it and move on (needs a very expensive new motor) - I have been offered quite a bit of money for it, even in its current state (not running).

    But, I think I'd regret it terribly, so now faced with finding a way to fix and keep it instead...  And to be fair, it is so heavily modified that it doesn't drive anything like a stock 73 (though my original 73 S 2.4L was lots of fun too).  I've never driven anything so responsive with such incredible feedback.  Driving it sideways on the very limit is so easy and intuitive - can totally steer it with right foot and slight steering corrections.

    BTW, I understand why you guys in Germany aren't as interested in the older models.  Having driven there for a month, I can't imagine driving an old car like that on the autobahn and Nordschleife.  But on the slower roads of Colorado and Switzerland, they are plenty of fun (and at the local track where speeds are far lower and run-offs far more generous than NoS, being nimble and tossable is a great deal of fun without high risk of death).


    --

     

     

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

     

     


    Re: Next two brands to offer Manual Gearbox?

    BiTurbo:
    How can you explain this then Smiley

    Both cars were eqiupped  with Z07 Package

    1. Corvette C7 Z06 *Automatic* Sachsenring lap time  -  1:30,47

    2. Corvette C7 Z06 *Manual* Sachsenring lap time  -  1:30,85

    Not a fair comparison, since the Manual is a 7spd (with top 3 gear ratios unusable on the track) and the Auto is an 8spd.


    --

     

     

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

     


    Re: Next two brands to offer Manual Gearbox?

    Yet it managed to get as close as the auto Z06 and 918.

    If car manufacturers wanted to keep the manual alive, they could've done so.

    Truth is, they want to cash in as much $$$ as possible and keep their costs down, the double-clutch being the future transmission is poo-poo stuff. We all know most of these so called new generation car enthusiasts / new customers can't even drive.

     


    Re: Next two brands to offer Manual Gearbox?

    BiTurbo:

    Yet it managed to get as close as the auto Z06 and 918.

    If car manufacturers wanted to keep the manual alive, they could've done so.

    Truth is, they want to cash in as much $$$ as possible and keep their costs down, the double-clutch being the future transmission is poo-poo stuff. We all know most of these so called new generation car enthusiasts / new customers can't even drive.

     

    Yes. Demand across the board for manual transmissions is dismal in most markets, and falling, because people don't know how to drive them.


    Re: Next two brands to offer Manual Gearbox?

    BiTurbo:

    Yet it managed to get as close as the auto Z06 and 918.

    If car manufacturers wanted to keep the manual alive, they could've done so.

    Truth is, they want to cash in as much $$$ as possible and keep their costs down, the double-clutch being the future transmission is poo-poo stuff. We all know most of these so called new generation car enthusiasts / new customers can't even drive.

     

    You are aware that the concept of double-clutch came from auto racing. I think they know how to drive.

    That said, I understand that there are dinosaurs who enjoy masturbating with the gear and clutch while inhaling the exhaust of double clutch cars.Smiley


    --

    Of little, to make much: That is the dream of a human life.


    Re: Next two brands to offer Manual Gearbox?

    What rubbish you have written as the vast majority street-oriented sports cars acquired the cars for reasons other than outright speed.  Some have purchased those cars for image and some for driving satisfaction.  

    Race car drivers, however, are compensated for outright performance.  Hence, driving satisfaction takes a backseat to outright speed and performance of going around the circuit as quickly as possible and for the duration of the race.  

    Mixing the two with nearly obscene statements redolent with arrogance is a gross disservice to others on this board.


    Re: Next two brands to offer Manual Gearbox?

    I am surprised no one has mentioned the environmental motivation for PDK. Everyone keeps talking about performance and race-derived technology. Well, the marketing department has certainly done a great job indecision These highly efficient dual-clutch gearboxes have obviously a major impact on the fuel consumption and CO2 emission tests.


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM


    Re: Next two brands to offer Manual Gearbox?

    Most of these cars are a emotional purchase and end up used more for show than for go. So if buyers just have to have the latest gadgetry to enhance their bragging rights, boost their ego, or allow for their wife to drive the car , ....that's Just all part of the high price car game.   


    Re: Next two brands to offer Manual Gearbox?

    You have denigrated the majority of the high performance sport car buyers claiming they don't know how to drive. Yet, you find offense when it is pointed out that manual is like masturbation. WHAT ARROGANCE! Smiley


    --

    Of little, to make much: That is the dream of a human life.


    Re: Next two brands to offer Manual Gearbox?

    For the longest time, everyone prefers manual over an automatic because of the sluggish performance of the auto slush box, the torque converter is not built for quick reactions. 

    But then the dual clutch was invented, one can have the performance of a manual, actually more performance in a 'auto' box. And in auto mode, it will up shifts till eternity so the fuel consumption is way down, but at the lightest touch of the throttle, it will be at the correct gear for power. Or if one wants, it can be driven like a manual, the driver can keep driving at whatever gear they want. It is the best of both world.

    There isn't any down side, Dual clutch is the perfect invention. But car makers seems to forget, ignored a small group of buyers who loved the feel of using the clutch pedals and rowing their own gears, performance be damn kind of people. 

    Right now, they finally noticed them, and realized that they are quite hardcore that way and can be exploited. Silly them. They could have switched their option sheets and make dual-clutch standard while offering manual as a premium. The reverse of before. 


    --

     

     


    Re: Next two brands to offer Manual Gearbox?

    nberry:

    You have denigrated the majority of the high performance sport car buyers claiming they don't know how to drive. Yet, you find offense when it is pointed out that manual is like masturbation. WHAT ARROGANCE! Smiley

    That's the best you can do?  One never posted about someone not knowing how to drive a hi-po car; hence the true emerges.   I don't care if you want or require an automatic transmission, I enjoy a manual.


    Re: Next two brands to offer Manual Gearbox?

    Nick,

    You're so funny, what else would you want Porsche to add to the upcoming GT3 ? a comfort+ and eco-mode borrowed from BMW along with a Mercedes Magic Sky Control + panoramic roof ? how about a quieter exhaust from Lexus ? maybe rear entertainment for the dogs and cats, since they still don't offer GT3 with rear seats.

    Tell us more more about your frequent visits to starbucks drive-thru and how fast technology has evolved by going from size S to XL for the cup holders.


    Re: Next two brands to offer Manual Gearbox?

    bluelines:
    Grant:

     Anyone want to begin the wagering?  I am betting on Ferrari...

    http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/road-cars/opinions/the-return-of-the-manual-gearbox/

    ...but manual is so 90s Smiley Smiley

    100% agree. Just wondering when do they come up and remove the servo steering or the electrical ignition... manual would be so cool:


    Re: Next two brands to offer Manual Gearbox?

    It seems nick has bought a automatic mastubator and fell in love. Get a room nick and we will give you some peace and quiet. 


     
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