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    "Ring" record for Carrera GT

    A couple of months after the first "Supertest" of the German car magazine "sportauto", where on a damp track the "Ring"-time for the Carrera GT was quoted as "below 7.40", another Carrera GT with Horst von Saumra at the wheel now set a new "Ring" record in 7.33 min (and some seconds which I don't remember anymore ).

    Re: "Ring" record for Carrera GT

    Quote:
    rossi said:
    A couple of months after the first "Supertest" of the German car magazine "sportauto", where on a damp track the "Ring"-time for the Carrera GT was quoted as "below 7.40", another Carrera GT with Horst von Saumra at the wheel now set a new "Ring" record in 7.33 min (and some seconds which I don't remember anymore ).



    Rossi, we already discussed this in an older post but thanks for reminding us again.
    The record time was 7 min 32,44 sec. (I hope Ferdie doesn't complaint again now... ).
    The car has been driven by Horst von Saurma, SPORT AUTO editor-in-chief and well known race driver.
    Officially, this is actually THE Ring Record for street approved production cars but there is another "record" which I somehow doubt always because it isn't controlled, documented and performed to technical standards as the SPORT AUTO Trophy.

    And another thing: SPORT AUTO promises (and I really trust them, they have the trust of many car manufacturers) that the CGT they tested wasn't modified for the Ring and it didn't have any other improvements. They made sure about it before the test to avoid later speculations.

    Unfortunately Ferrari still doesn't want to provide a Ferrari Enzo for a similar "independent" and controlled test.

    Another funny thing (for Ferrari owners interesting): Horst von Saurma recently raced a Ferrari Michelotto 360 Modena N-GT in the GTP Pirelli Masters race in Hockenheim.
    This car has 450 HP and a weight of 1100 kg.
    BTW: he raced the Ferrari in a Porsche race suit.

    But I guess this shows that Horst von Saurma is a very trustable and highly appreciated driver and editor.
    He is a "Ehrliche Haut" as we say here in Germany, sometimes I think he's some sort of idol for me because he seems very open minded towards all kind of cars. And he usually says what he thinks. I just wish I could drive as he can.

    Re: "Ring" record for Carrera GT

    I wonder how many times he stalled with the stupid clutch hahah (sarcasm)

    Re: "Ring" record for Carrera GT

    Quote:
    CarreraGtRacer said:
    I wonder how many times he stalled with the stupid clutch hahah (sarcasm)



    Good question. How many start from dead stops are there on the Ring anyway?

    Re: "Ring" record for Carrera GT

    Quote:
    ben, lj said:
    Quote:
    CarreraGtRacer said:
    I wonder how many times he stalled with the stupid clutch hahah (sarcasm)



    Good question. How many start from dead stops are there on the Ring anyway?



    LOL

    CarreraGTracer is correct in that some people have reported difficult usage of the CGT's clutch from dead starts, but most have had no problem with the car during movement

    that said, someone who can produce that kind of time in a car has likely had enough experience in it to get used to the car's clutch's nuances.


    Re: "Ring" record for Carrera GT

    Quote:
    RC said:
    ...The record time was 7 min 32,44 sec. (I hope Ferdie doesn't complaint again now... ).
    ...I think he's some sort of idol for me because he seems very open minded towards all kind of cars. And he usually says what he thinks. I just wish I could drive as he can.



    RC, I expected you to drive as good as him! As Chief Editor of Sport Auto I would have liked a bit more open-minded attitude towards sportscars different than Porsche!

    Just as a sidenote the SL55 they tested in the Supertest was limited at 250 kph, not 300 kph. This would've shaven of a few more seconds of the laptime!

    What I definately appreciate is that he knows what he talks about and gave some serious comments on cars that were highly appreciate in some other magazines - e.g. the Golf R32 or Mini Cooper S became some bad marks on various issues that no other paper reported. These didn't go on a racetrack on the other hand.

    By the way, there used to be a certain other prominent Chief Editor either at Sport Auto or Rallye Racing which became a very influential man in charge at a German manufacturer's racing division...

    Re: "Ring" record for Carrera GT

    Quote:
    Ferdie said:
    By the way, there used to be a certain other prominent Chief Editor either at Sport Auto or Rallye Racing which became a very influential man in charge at a German manufacturer's racing division...



    If you mean Norbert Haug, it was "auto, motor und sport".

    Re: "Ring" record for Carrera GT

    Are you sure?

    Re: "Ring" record for Carrera GT

    Quote:
    Ferdie said:
    Are you sure?



    Why should I doubt myself?

    You are oviously not sure that I was wrong.

    Nobby worked for ams! I don't know if he also "freelanced", and wrote for other mags.

    Re: "Ring" record for Carrera GT

    Quote:
    Ferdie said:

    Just as a sidenote the SL55 they tested in the Supertest was limited at 250 kph, not 300 kph. This would've shaven of a few more seconds of the laptime!




    A glance at the test car's 0-200 acceleration time indicates that the sport auto SL55 was far from standard. I seriously doubt that a standard SL55 without the 250 limit could be faster than the car tested by sport auto

    Re: "Ring" record for Carrera GT

    Quote:
    rossi said:
    A couple of months after the first "Supertest" of the German car magazine "sportauto", where on a damp track the "Ring"-time for the Carrera GT was quoted as "below 7.40", another Carrera GT with Horst von Saumra at the wheel now set a new "Ring" record in 7.33 min (and some seconds which I don't remember anymore ).



    If only there was a "Ring" to drive around on once you left your home. People need to get real and think in terms of whether the car is enjoyable and fun to drive on public roads and highways.

    To my knowledge three members of this board have actually driven the CGT and each one has indicated it is not.

    Re: "Ring" record for Carrera GT

    I guess you won't be buying a Radical Turbo anytime soon

    Quote:
    To my knowledge three members of this board have actually driven the CGT and each one has indicated it is not.


    We have that monster thread for this argument, leave this thread alone.

    Re: "Ring" record for Carrera GT

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    If only there was a "Ring" to drive around on once you left your home. People need to get real and think in terms of whether the car is enjoyable and fun to drive on public roads and highways.




    I seem to recall someone explaining to you here recently that the reason so many of the worlds' major car makers use the 'Ring to test their products, including sedans and SUVs, was because it is a very concentrated form of the conditions you come across on public roads and highways.

    It is also closed to the general public, so that it can also be used at higher than normal street-legal speeds, which further concentrates the benefit in terms of development feed-back for every thousand miles a car spends on the circuit.

    You still do not seem to have understood. Maybe you could read the above 20 times before going to sleep tonight, to assist your mind in assimilating the information.

    Re: "Ring" record for Carrera GT

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    You still do not seem to have understood. Maybe you could read the above 20 times before going to sleep tonight, to assist your mind in assimilating the information.



    Fritz, my man ... you have fallen for Nick's trolling style once again. He has no interest in making any comments that fall outside of his "talking points". Trying to reason with him will only bring on another of his repetitive propaganda sessions.

    You'll have to learn to let go. Don't feed the trolls. Let trolling move on to more fertile pastures.

    If the seeds of his fun fall on barren ground, no vines of vile frustrations can take root!

    Re: "Ring" record for Carrera GT

    Quote:
    brunner said:
    I guess you won't be buying a Radical Turbo anytime soon



    Well, you have brought up a good point that Nick has been trying to make for a while now. If you are merely after the best performance (and nothing else), then you needn't spend $500k to get it.

    Re: "Ring" record for Carrera GT

    Justin, I know what you're aiming at but these two cars are so far from each other - the only common factor is that they're both very, very fast on a track!
    Of course you can take a Radical or Palmer or whatever you want to take into consideration but it is no substitute to a car like the Enzo, CGT or Murcie!

    If I'd be into maximum performance I would look for a decent Cup-Carrera, a monoposto racer (that I of course can't drive on the street) or simply a manageable roadcar that gives me enough thrill.

    Besides that the racing culture in Britain seems to be much different than in other countries. The kit-car community is probably bigger than in any other country and since you can't get your thrills on the motorways a cheap car to get your thrills on the track is what a lot of people are aiming at. I don't want to downtalk those type of sportscars in any way but it raises the question why people buy sports- or racingcars in the first place.
    Status is definately an issue on anything north of TT and 360 prices, same goes for quality and a decent amount of emotional value. This paired with outstanding performance and unique or forwarding technology components should make the way. Which way to go for everybody personally is nothing I have to decide about!

    Still it remains funny to me that some people prefer the Enzo over the CGT, so power over handling seems to be the way to go for them...
    On the other hand some people order a Stradale (and why not a GT3?) instead though I have to admit that I cannot really get the point. I might assume that those people would've never appreciated the Porsche in the right way.

    I could imagine that Porsche would've had more success with the CGT if the car would've become as effortless and pleasing to handle like the 996 TT or new 997 S...

    Fritz, by the way, it was me who mentioned the meaning of the Nürburgring. Japanese and American manufacturers test their cars there and I would say it is understandable that Ferrari doesn't test there - they have their own challenging backroads just right out of the gate...

    Re: "Ring" record for Carrera GT

    People could prefer the Enzo over the CGT for plenty of reasons, but I think the jury is still out in these cars.

    They seem to be edging each other in different mags for top handler. The only real comparison we have in writing which gives real impressions is the motortrend article, but they said the Enzo had plenty of grip and braking prowess it was just a little too much too handle at the edge.

    The objective stats in that test achieved by the CGT were slightly higher than the Enzo, but even those stats have been met by the Enzo in other tests.

    I'm certaibly not saying the Enzo is better, but I think we should wait a while before declaring one car the "handling" winner when they constantly test so close to each other and there are so many factors to be accounted for in handling.(understeer, oversteer, highspeed stability, feel, even the state of the tires on the car)

    Re: "Ring" record for Carrera GT

    Quote:
    Ferdie said:
    RC, I expected you to drive as good as him!



    Ferdie, I didn't have any serious track time for the past 18 months. No matter how I drove in the past, he definetely can drive better than me NOW. And I'm pretty sure that even in the past, he was driving better than me because he had a lot of track time on various cars. Something I really admire and envy him for.
    Practice is very important for track racing and my time is "over". With two kids and a lot of work, incl. this forum, no more track time in the near future. But I have to confess that I wouldn't have the money for it either. Now I have to earn some money before I can spend it again, this is how life works. If somebody has money to give away for free, I'm waiting.

    Re: "Ring" record for Carrera GT

    RC,

    it really needs a lot of commitment to spend that much money on cars like you do!
    Do you still have the ML?

    By the way, don't all of us need a little bit of money?

    Regarding v. Saurma. He made some very nice statements on a lot of cars, especially in the Supertest. What I do mind is that Motorpresse Stuttgart have occasionally been biased on some marques.
    His review on the Bentley EXP 8 though was a bit short on details and insight and I have the honest feeling that that car showed up his own limit. Not that there is anything bad about it - and I doubt that I am close to him right now - but what I believe to be important is a certain feeling and talent on the track. I have the feeling that you do have this.
    On the other hand I have heard various wild stories about v. Saurma and his colleagues on the Ring...

    Basically you should ask yourself what would be important for you on the track. I don't care too much about laptimes since there is so much to work on, starting from driving techniques depending on the car via suspension setup to the actual competitiveness of the car.
    Even DTM drivers, which constantly try to be competitive, sometimes have difficulties to find the right setup for their car. How should someone private, like you or me, have enough time, determination and financial background to achieve similiar things? I don't want to do that! I try to improve my skills and have a lot of fun driving cars!

    Greetings!

    Re: "Ring" record for Carrera GT

    Quote:
    W8MM said:
    Fritz, my man ... you have fallen for Nick's trolling style once again.

    You'll have to learn to let go. Don't feed the trolls. Let trolling move on to more fertile pastures.

    If the seeds of his fun fall on barren ground, no vines of vile frustrations can take root!



    Don't worry about me Mike. I'm not feeding the troll, I'm baiting him.

    I don't take Nick's posts seriously, but if I must read them, I might as well get some fun out of them - and him.

    We all know that he is too persistent to walk away if he is ignored, and that there are always Newbies coming along who haven't read enough of his posts to know better than to write "I agree with Nick on this one........" .

    He got banned for a (very short) month last time around. I'm for giving him all the rope he needs to hang himself (speaking figuratively) the next time around.

    Re: "Ring" record for Carrera GT

    Well, here is the official press release, and the pictures!
    Carrera GT fastest car on the 'Ring
    -Joost-

    Re: "Ring" record for Carrera GT

    From Porsche website

    LINK

    Quote:
    Successful record set up on the North Circuit

    Porsche Carrera GT fastest car on Nürburgring

    Stuttgart. The Carrera GT is the fastest car to lap the Nürburgring North Circuit. With the clock showing 7'32.44 minutes, Horst von Saurma, Chief Editor of the German specialist magazine "sport auto," achieved a new record for road-approved vehicles, at the wheel of the 612 HP strong Porsche. He completed the 22.6 km long round in the Eifel at an average speed of 164 km/h.

    "It was really touch and go. The circuit was dirty in some sectors, which didn't make it any easier," beamed Horst von Saurma with glee, after his record round.

    For ten years the magazine has been awarding an (unofficial) challenge cup to the driver who drives the fastest round on the Nürburgring using a road-approved car. Thus the race for the best time round the circuit has become a prestigious affair, as Nürburgring is still the best and most honest test of the quality of a vehicle chassis, motor performance, aerodynamics and naturally of tires. Since 1995, times have gradually improved from 7'52 minutes to the current 7'32.44 minutes. Wolfgang Dürheimer, Member of Porsche's Management Board responsible for Research and Development: "The time achieved by Horst von Saurma is excellent and demonstrates the potential of our car. Until recently such times could exclusively be clocked up with pure racing cars."

    The journalist von Saurma clocked up the fastest round in the context of a so-called "super test," which the magazine executes regularly. Top times on the Nürburgring, always driven by the same tester, are among the criteria. Wolfgang Dürheimer: "It is precisely for this reason that the 7'32.44 minutes are so easy for us to put in to context and are thus valuable."

    Note: photos of the record lap with the Carrera GT on the Nürburgring are available to accredited journalists in the Porsche press database at http://presse.porsche.de.


    GO 2004-09-20






    Re: "Ring" record for Carrera GT

    What about the Radical that lapped it in something like 7'19? Wasn't it road-approved too?
    --Pierre

    Re: "Ring" record for Carrera GT

    yes in the UK. Therefore it has the production record.

    Re: "Ring" record for Carrera GT

    I wonder if an in-car video is going to show up from this lap...

    Gary

    Re: "Ring" record for Carrera GT

    so porsche got it wrong it isnt the fastest ?

    Re: "Ring" record for Carrera GT

    The Radical is road legal ONLY in UK, so they are both right

    Re: "Ring" record for Carrera GT

    also in italy the radical is a road legal..
    but the difference is one the carrera gt is a dream car and go fast same a race car,
    the radical is a race car and can go on the road,whit the shoei or arai

    Radical SR3 Turbo

    But at 7'19", that is ALOT faster (and cheaper)! But, I would feel very nervous about driving one of those on the street even if it was legal.

    Also, Radical is in development for a new V-8 version with over 400hp - will be a monster!

    Re: Radical SR3 Turbo

    If the radical is street legal in UK, then it can be driven in all EU, right? incl. Germany. So the Radical has the record, by a loooooong shot, period. You can say the CGT is the fastest road legal car at the ring with a roof

    Now, were is the Enzo in all of this? :P can you say... chicken!


    Grant, 400V8 on a Radical?

     
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