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    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    ISUK:
    Not quite sure what a "new toilet" effect is Smiley Smiley

     

    like a kid tires of his new Xmas toy by NY Eve, because he discovers it's just another toy (toilet!)


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    I missed the F50 acquisition as well. I have not ridden in the F50 but have in the F40. What a raw scintillating automobile experience! Congratulations.kiss


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    sfo:

    like a kid tires of his new Xmas toy by NY Eve, because he discovers it's just another toy (toilet!)

    No, I'm pretty sure I won't tire of it........ and I've had lots of experience of that with my car changing habits Smiley The little Alfa just feels special and provides real enjoyment and fun.


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    saw my first  white 4C on the M25 yesterday evening , very good looking car and it blended in very well. Good choice ISUK Smiley



    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    That's a very fair review Nick. This one is also quite accurate.


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Saw a white one at the Ring on Thursday , must say I like the looks but the sound is - sorry to say - quite dreadful. I hope there are aftermarket-solutions....a gearshift literally sounds like a fart!


    --

    M3 CSL / Alpina D3 Bi-Turbo Touring / RS2 Avant / GT3RS Kermit


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    I've not heard a standard edition car's exhaust but the sports exhaust on the launch edition cars is loud.


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    "The 4C looks like it drinks unicorn blood"    A new altitude reached in writing by the automotive journalist Dan Neil.indecision

    http://online.wsj.com/articles/alfa-romeo-old-fashioned-driving-is-new-again-1405101133?tesla=y&mg=reno64-wsj&url=http:/...


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    ISUK:

    I've not heard a standard edition car's exhaust but the sports exhaust on the launch edition cars is loud.

    Indeed, it sounds very nice.

    I was interested in getting a 4C but Alfa Romeo never bothered to contact me (I registered as a "first buyer" last year).

    Then, I found a car near Munich, launch edition, "in stock and available immediately" according to the dealer. Asking price was only 3k EUR over MSRP, so I went there and really wanted to get the 4C. I looked at the (red) car, really nice, the exhaust sounded nice too and everything seemed quite amazing for an Alfa Romeo (I was used to the low quality Alfas three decades ago). When I expressed my will to actually buy the car, the dealer backed off and suddenly started to tell me that I had to order one and it would take up to 12 months or longer. 

    In the end, he was asking 10k EUR over MSRP and just out of principle, I refused and walked away. What a scam. It wasn't an official Alfa Romeo dealer but still...not really what I expected.

    Oh, did I mention that the car was already registered and had already 600 km on it?! 

    My wife is actually happy I didn't get one, she likes the Jaguar F-Type V8 S much more but right now, it just doesn't make sense to put more money into cars, especially since she has the Boxster S as a Cab.

    Still...the 4C was tempting, not very expensive and really looking very nice, like a small Ferrari.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Quick update. I've put my car through Alfa's Pit Stop programme which is a continuous improvement process the factory are offering owners to bring their cars up to the latest spec's - a bit like Mclaren did for 12C owners. My car has been given revised front dampers on the suspension which has eliminated the tendency to tramline and follow cambers that it had previously. It is now much more relaxing to drive on normal roads as a result of this change as you are not constantly monitoring or correcting the steering. It has also had the gearbox software updated and the shifts in all driving modes are now smoother and supposedly faster. The thump in the back on upshifts has gone which is a bit of a shame as it makes the shifts "feel" slower if that makes sense. For anyone familiar with Ferraris it is like going from a 430 Scud with the F1 box to the 458 with DCT. You know it is faster and more efficient but it has lost the edginess/kick in the pants feel during shifting in the process and the aggressive blip of the throttle has been tamed on downshifts. The battery has also been upgraded for a larger capacity unit as Alfa have realised most owners are using the car as an occassional toy and the original battery was losing charge if left idle for several weeks giving starting issues. I had this once but a quick top up with a C-Tek battery charger got me going.

    I'm going to live with the changes for a few weeks and see how I get on but have asked Alfa if it is possible to reverse the gearbox software upgrade to go back to the more manic earlier version which was a lot of fun but not to everyones taste it would appear.


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Interesting that the suspension dampers had such an impact on the tramlining tendency which many people commented on - I would have thought this more related to suspension alignment settings and as well the unassisted steering, which if not incorporating much steering damping could result in bad tramlining.   But very good of the company to push this continuous improvement approach.   Also these changes could make the 4C cabrio a very nice little roadster.... 


    --

    2011 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Sounds like Alfa Romeo is using their earliest customers as part of the developmental department.  No wonder Alfa Romeo claims that it only took two-and-one-half years to "develop" the all new Guilia. 


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    It's not really fair to say that early customers are part of the development team. The changes have, to a large extent, been made in response to press criticism (mostly in Europe) about the handling of the launch edition cars which were set up fairly stiffly on the racing suspension package. Any reports I've read where the writer actually used the car for longer than a day come out far more favourably as they became adjusted to how to get the best from it and why it was set up the way it was by Alfa. I've not read/heard of any real problems from owners on any aspects of the car which suggests the development work and testing done prior to launch was pretty thorough. The battery swap is merely in recognition of the way in which some cars are being used and the fact that owners either don't or can't plug in a battery tender.

    The short development period on the Giulia is covered in this interesting article by Car magazine. It looks like the creation of the skunkworks development team cut out a lot of the time required on a "normal" new car development cycle as the lines of communication amongst those involved were much shorter so decisions could be taken quickly without having to be kicked upstairs for senior approval.

    http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/industry-news/alfa-romeo/seven-surprises-on-new-alfa-romeo-giulia-revealed-by-chief-engineer/


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    I really doubt that a continously cash constrained organization is capable of developing reliable and well engineered products.   There is a reason over the decades why Alfa-Romeo, Fiat and Chrysler have required financial bailouts and the consumer was told, this time it is different.  

    The more things change, the more they remain the same.

     


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    The Giulia sounds pretty interesting, and it is what the Pajun could have been. Now let's see if they can execute well, once the reviews start coming in. If it is what they claim, I think it will do very well in the market.


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Drove a new (25 miles when I got in) 4C Coupe this morning for about 25 miles. Spider is a showroom car only.

    Ride on 18/19" wheels was much better than expected. The damping is very good, you get the go kart feel without any crashiness. Yes, the really bad roads are not fun, but they are tolerable. 

    Power is excellent, engine is powerful, very revvy and plenty responsive, even in normal mode (had to stay there as car had less than 200 miles, during which no other mode is selectable). I was amazed how little lag there is, it feels almost supercharged. Fantastic little unit. 

    Exhaust noise is loud but monotone -- a bit of loud fart sort of sound. Not musical, just noisy. A bit boomy too. In fact, I would say it is sometimes annoying. Unfortunately, there is no switch to soften it. There is no variation in tone or tune, and no delight when you go through the revs.

    For me, steering is the worst part of the car. Heavy at parking speeds, but very little feel, if any. It also hunts out cambers all over the place. As a result, you get surprised by the steering's sometimes violent and unexpected reactions when you are least expecting it. A real shame about the steering. If it were better, it will be a stonking car. I wonder whether the problem is the very light front end, and lack of power steering, which might mean less frenzy. Having said that, once you are travelling over 50mph, the steering does settle down, but it doesn't offer any feedback, nor is it especially sharp or accurate. The weighting doesn't seem to change much either once you get going. All very surprising for unassisted steering, it feels like there is a lot of masking and inconsistency. Perhaps one can get used to it.

    Seats are firm, provide good support and are comfortable. Range of adjustment fine for me. Steering come in/out and up/down. Easy to find perfect driving position. Brake pedal is floor hinged which is a lovely touch. Pedals made of metal too.

    Rear visibility is poor due to having to look through rear window and engine cover. Spider much better as no engine cover glass in the way.

    Build quality is impressive. No rattles, no bits falling off or loose. Plastics are a bit thin, HVAC controls are last century, stalks are a bit flimsy, but overall, well put together. No complaints there. I was very pleasantly surprised.

    The roof is also very thought out -- leagues ahead of any Lotus roof. Once on, it is sturdy, and attached tightly. Not fiddly, but there are a few steps. Impressive piece of design and engineering; you could easily describe it as Germanic.

    Road noise on main roads at 70mph is high, worse on rough concrete roads, where you get a sort of deafening roar. A sort of echo chamber.

    UK prices for a 4C spider starts at GBP59,500. In my modest(ish) spec, it comes to 63,500. No waiting list at all, so clearly not huge demand.

    A tempting proposition. The one worry I have is steering.


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    The steering issues are usually down to poor set up at the factory. I had my geometry checked as part of the PitStop programme and it is vastly improved now. I'm thinking of taking my car to Jamie Porter at the Alfa Workshop in Royston, Herts. Jamie has built up a good reputation for understanding the 4C and has done a lot of development work on it and he can completely sort out the wayward front end from what I've read on the 4C owners forum.

    It is a fantastic little car and really great value for money IMHO when you look at what it offers. My local dealer has a yellow spider in their showroom I believe and I intended to go along and see it but I took a wrong turning and ended up at a rather more exotic Italian marque dealer in Birmingham and bought something loud and yellow Smiley

     

     


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    ISUK:

    ...  I intended to go along and see it but I took a wrong turning and ended up at a rather more exotic Italian marque dealer in Birmingham and bought something loud and yellow Smiley

    Please elaborate on this Smiley

    @sfo: Great review, very comprehensive. do you think you'll just modify the cars setup as ISUK suggested when you take delivery? and just sort our the steering feel? 


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Manual steering and light front end are not necessarily a recipe for problematic steering.  Early 911 and Lotus Elise/Exige are among the best steering cars ever made.


    --

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    ISUK:

    The steering issues are usually down to poor set up at the factory. I had my geometry checked as part of the PitStop programme and it is vastly improved now. I'm thinking of taking my car to Jamie Porter at the Alfa Workshop in Royston, Herts. Jamie has built up a good reputation for understanding the 4C and has done a lot of development work on it and he can completely sort out the wayward front end from what I've read on the 4C owners forum.

    It is a fantastic little car and really great value for money IMHO when you look at what it offers. My local dealer has a yellow spider in their showroom I believe and I intended to go along and see it but I took a wrong turning and ended up at a rather more exotic Italian marque dealer in Birmingham and bought something loud and yellow Smiley

    excellent info on the steering. I might call Jamie Porter next week.

    we need more info on this wrong turning purchase please

     


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Enmanuel:
     

    @sfo: do you think you'll just modify the cars setup as ISUK suggested when you take delivery? and just sort our the steering feel? 

    not ordered yet, not anywhere near!


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    It's likely a very worthwhile call to reassure you that the chassis/steering is not at fault but rather that it is a car that is very sensitive to set up. I'll be interested on any feedback you have from Jamie as I've yet to make that call and will likely now wait until the spring to do so.  Carrs Ferrari in Exeter told me they took a 4C in for a full geometry alignment from the Alfa dealership just across the road from them as they have the equipment required to do this work but the Alfa dealer did not. They found it was considerably out from Alfa's recommended figures even though it had just arrived from being built at Maserati.

    I will report on my purchase once I've collected the car which should be in around 10 days or so as it is being fitted with Xpel protection film and I'm having the wheels swapped for a different OEM style and those won't arrive from the factory until the end of this week at the earliest I should think.
     


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Grant:

    Manual steering and light front end are not necessarily a recipe for problematic steering.  Early 911 and Lotus Elise/Exige are among the best steering cars ever made.

    SFO is not the first reviewer to comment on the steering; Alfa could have done well to contract out Lotus to sort out steering and handling.  It is possible that nobody now has the in-house experience to fine tune unassisted steering systems, except Lotus.  


    --

    2011 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Grant:

    Manual steering and light front end are not necessarily a recipe for problematic steering.  Early 911 and Lotus Elise/Exige are among the best steering cars ever made.

     

    Ditto.  I think for someone who wants a more raw car than what Porsche offers yet doesn't want to go all the way to something like an Ariel Atom, this car makes sense.  Especially if you like the styling and the Alfa brand.

    As a Lotus owner, to me the car does not handle as sweetly or offer as much communication as an Elise.  Nor is it as practical as Cayman.  So for me, the Alfa falls is somewhat of a no man's land, but still it's an interesting proposition.  There's certainly no other car like it on the market.

    If Lotus can come out with a new version of the Elise by 2019 or 2020, then the comparison will be interesting.


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    4C is a sort of 'luxury' Elise ..

     


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Spoke to Jamie Porter, very helpful man.

    He says he can fix the steering by adjusting geo and new bushes for around £300. As a result, the steering stops chasing chambers and becomes more accurate with no center dead spot. Sounds great!

    He can also deal with exhaust drone and farty sound for around £700. His system involves adding a small pipe to the main pipe (this creates a second flute, thereby introducing some sound variation), and a holmax resonator (a 'milk bottle' thing, connected top and bottom to main pipe) near the end (this cancels out the drone), and carbon tips. No effect on performance. 

     


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    That's great feedback, thank you kiss It sounds like I need to book a trip to Royston next Spring.


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Why wait?

    They have a development car which has steering and exhaust mods, along with others (more power and rear suspension (for track day addicts)),

    Jamie stated that the OEM dampers are of good quality.

    Meanwhile, dealer (very helpful) is trying to get a 4C Spider for me to drive.

     


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    I don't use the car everyday and it's likely tucked away now for the winter months so am in no rush. The mod's made by the factory Pit Stop programme are actually pretty good in terms of calming down the steering on my car as it involved fitting new front dampers that are more suited to road use couple with revised geometry. I would to try out Jamie's development car though to see what difference he can make.


     
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