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    Re: 997 Turbo - controversial discussions/claims after AZ re

    Thank you crash, I've been trying to tell everyone that in the last five or so of my posts, no one wants to hear it I guess . As for the R8, I doubt the 420hp version will be anywhere near 7:40 or 7:42 on the N'ring. I'd be surprised if the 520hp version could do that either.

    Re: 997 Turbo - controversial discussions/claims after AZ re

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Motorart V 8
    Hubraum 4308 ccm
    Aufladung Sauger
    PS - UMin 490 PS (360 kW) - 8500/Min
    Nm - UMin 465 Nm - 5250/Min
    Motorlage/Antrieb Mittelmotor/Heck
    Gänge/Schaltung 6/sequentiell
    Test in Auto Zeitung 08/2005
    Gewicht 1520 kg
    0 - 80 km/h 2,9 s
    0 - 100 km/h 3,8 s
    0 - 120 km/h 5,3 s
    0 - 130 km/h - s
    0 - 140 km/h 6,5 s
    0 - 160 km/h 8,3 s
    0 - 180 km/h 10,6 s
    0 - 200 km/h 13,2 s

    This test was misprinted with the number 12,2. Auto Zeitung took these numbers and just inserted them into the "comparison test".


    13.2 is impossible, all tests of the world are under 13

    Re: 997 Turbo - controversial discussions/claims after AZ re

    Quote:
    Duncan said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Motorart V 8
    Hubraum 4308 ccm
    Aufladung Sauger
    PS - UMin 490 PS (360 kW) - 8500/Min
    Nm - UMin 465 Nm - 5250/Min
    Motorlage/Antrieb Mittelmotor/Heck
    Gänge/Schaltung 6/sequentiell
    Test in Auto Zeitung 08/2005
    Gewicht 1520 kg
    0 - 80 km/h 2,9 s
    0 - 100 km/h 3,8 s
    0 - 120 km/h 5,3 s
    0 - 130 km/h - s
    0 - 140 km/h 6,5 s
    0 - 160 km/h 8,3 s
    0 - 180 km/h 10,6 s
    0 - 200 km/h 13,2 s

    This test was misprinted with the number 12,2. Auto Zeitung took these numbers and just inserted them into the "comparison test".


    13.2 is impossible, all tests of the world are under 13



    So tell me how 12,2 would be possible, by your logic. A few tests:

    Ferrari F430 F1 Coupé - Test 2005 (Serie)

    Motorart V 8
    Hubraum 4308 ccm
    Aufladung Sauger
    PS - UMin 490 PS (360 kW) - 8500/Min
    Nm - UMin 465 Nm - 5250/Min
    Motorlage/Antrieb Mittelmotor/Heck
    Gänge/Schaltung 6/sequentiell
    Test in Auto Zeitung 08/2005
    Gewicht 1520 kg
    0 - 80 km/h 2,9 s
    0 - 100 km/h 3,8 s
    0 - 120 km/h 5,3 s
    0 - 130 km/h - s
    0 - 140 km/h 6,5 s
    0 - 160 km/h 8,3 s
    0 - 180 km/h 10,6 s
    0 - 200 km/h 13,2 s
    0 - 250 km/h - s
    400 m, stehender Start - s
    1 km, stehender Start - s
    Vmax 316 km/h
    100 - 0 km/h (kalt) 36,3 m
    100 - 0 km/h (warm) 33,9 m
    Nordschleife - min
    Hockenheim, kleiner Kurs - min
    Querbeschleunigung - g
    Slalom 18 m 68,0 km/h
    Slalom 36 m - km/h
    ISO Ausweichtest - km/h
    Testverbrauch min/max/ges -/-/18,4 L/SP
    Grundpreis 138.700 Euro (04/2005)


    Ferrari F 430 F1 Coupé - 2005 (Serie)

    Motorart V 8
    Hubraum 4308 ccm
    Aufladung Sauger
    PS - UMin 490 PS (360 kW) - 8500/Min
    Nm - UMin 465 Nm - 5250/Min
    Motorlage/Antrieb Mittelmotor/Heck
    Gänge/Schaltung 6/sequentiell
    Test in ams 09/2005
    Gewicht 1488 kg
    0 - 80 km/h 3,0 s
    0 - 100 km/h 3,9 s
    0 - 120 km/h 5,4 s
    0 - 130 km/h 6,0 s
    0 - 140 km/h 6,7 s
    0 - 160 km/h 8,6 s
    0 - 180 km/h 10,4 s
    0 - 200 km/h 13,0 s
    0 - 250 km/h - s
    400 m, stehender Start 12,1 s
    1 km, stehender Start - s
    Vmax 316 km/h
    100 - 0 km/h (kalt) 36 m
    100 - 0 km/h (warm) 35 m
    Nordschleife - min
    Hockenheim, kleiner Kurs - min
    Motopark Oschersleben - min
    Querbeschleunigung - g
    Slalom 18 m 66,0 km/h
    Slalom 36 m - km/h
    ISO Ausweichtest 144,0 km/h
    Testverbrauch min/max/ges 11,9/24,2/17,6 L/SB
    Grundpreis 146.000 Euro (04/2005)
    Testwagenpreis 167.575 Euro


    Porsche 997/911 Turbo - 2006 (Serie)

    Motorart B 6
    Hubraum 3600 ccm
    Aufladung Biturbo/Euro 4/1,0-1,2 bar
    PS - UMin 480 PS (353 kW) - 6000/min
    Nm - UMin 620 Nm - 1950-5000/min
    Motorlage/Antrieb Heckmotor/Allrad
    Gänge/Schaltung 6/manuell
    Test in ams 13/2006
    Gewicht 1583 kg
    0 - 80 km/h 2,8 s
    0 - 100 km/h 3,7 s
    0 - 120 km/h - s
    0 - 130 km/h 5,8 s
    0 - 140 km/h 6,5 s
    0 - 160 km/h 8,0 s
    0 - 180 km/h 10,1 s
    0 - 200 km/h 12,3 s


    Porsche 997/911 Turbo - 2006 (Serie)

    Motorart B 6
    Hubraum 3600 ccm
    Aufladung Biturbo/Euro 4/1,0-1,2 bar
    PS - UMin 480 PS (353 kW) - 6000/min
    Nm - UMin 620 Nm - 1950-5000/min
    Motorlage/Antrieb Heckmotor/Allrad
    Gänge/Schaltung 6/manuell
    Test in Auto Zeitung 06/2006
    Gewicht 1600 kg
    0 - 80 km/h 3,0 s
    0 - 100 km/h 3,9 s
    0 - 120 km/h 5,5 s
    0 - 130 km/h - s
    0 - 140 km/h 6,8 s
    0 - 160 km/h 8,2 s
    0 - 180 km/h 10,5 s
    0 - 200 km/h 12,5 s
    0 - 250 km/h - s
    400 m, stehender Start - s
    1 km, stehender Start - s
    Vmax 310 km/h
    100 - 0 km/h (kalt) 33,0 m
    100 - 0 km/h (warm) 33,2 m
    Nordschleife - min
    Hockenheim, kleiner Kurs - min
    Motopark Oschersleben - min
    Querbeschleunigung - g
    Slalom 18 m - km/h
    Slalom 36 m - km/h
    ISO Ausweichtest - km/h
    Testverbrauch min/max/ges -/-/16,5 L/SP
    Grundpreis 133.609 Euro (06/2006)
    Testwagenpreis 137.292 Euro


    Look at these times and tell me, how could the F430 in the first test miraculously accelerate from 180 to 200 km/h in less time than it took for it to accelerate from 160 to 180 km/h?

    Re: 997 Turbo - controversial discussions/claims after AZ re

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    svtrader1 said:
    We are talking about Auto Zeiting not Auto Bild. The pictures show standard tires not Corsas.



    The tire shown on the pictures is the Bridgestone Potenza BUT the car tested (with numbers) in Auto Zeitung had Corsas. Period.




    RC,

    In America we have a sayin' "seeing is believing."

    The pictures clearly show street tires on the F430. It also shows the Gallardo is the one with the Corsas.

    So, is it your conspiracy theory that Autozeiting tested the F430 with Corsas and then swapped them out with bridgestones to take pictures, because, the want to fool the readers?

    Re: 997 Turbo - controversial discussions/claims after AZ re

    Quote:
    svtrader1 said:
    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    svtrader1 said:
    We are talking about Auto Zeiting not Auto Bild. The pictures show standard tires not Corsas.



    The tire shown on the pictures is the Bridgestone Potenza BUT the car tested (with numbers) in Auto Zeitung had Corsas. Period.




    RC,

    In America we have a sayin' "seeing is believing."

    The pictures clearly show street tires on the F430. It also shows the Gallardo is the one with the Corsas.

    So, is it your conspiracy theory that Autozeiting tested the F430 with Corsas and then swapped them out with bridgestones to take pictures, because, the want to fool the readers?



    sv,
    from what I understand the "test" was a compilation of other tests and the cars were only brought together for a photoshoot - can't make an article without pretty pictures .

    Re: 997 Turbo - controversial discussions/claims after AZ re

    The figures from Sport Auto's supertests
    F430
    0 - 80 km/h 3,1 s
    0 - 100 km/h 4,0 s
    0 - 120 km/h 5,5 s
    0 - 140 km/h 6,7 s
    0 - 160 km/h 8,4 s
    0 - 180 km/h 10,4 s
    0 - 200 km/h 12,6 s

    Quattroruote
    http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/532/dscn27897jc.jpg
    http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/1940/testf43015rm4vs.jpg

    Auto Bild
    Ferrari F430F1
    0-100km/h: 4.0s
    0-200km/h:12.5s

    Re: 997 Turbo - controversial discussions/claims after AZ re

    The posts proving that the 430 had Corsas must not be sinking in. That is irrelevant however because of the fact that the 430 times were a MISPRINT. Get over the fact that the 430 is slower or quit waisting our time.

    Re: 997 Turbo - controversial discussions/claims after AZ re

    Quote:
    Duncan said:
    The figures from Sport Auto's supertests
    F430
    0 - 80 km/h 3,1 s
    0 - 100 km/h 4,0 s
    0 - 120 km/h 5,5 s
    0 - 140 km/h 6,7 s
    0 - 160 km/h 8,4 s
    0 - 180 km/h 10,4 s
    0 - 200 km/h 12,6 s

    Quattroruote
    http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/532/dscn27897jc.jpg
    http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/1940/testf43015rm4vs.jpg

    Auto Bild
    Ferrari F430F1
    0-100km/h: 4.0s
    0-200km/h:12.5s



    I will buy the 12,6 time, but nothing below that. The times with these cars were achieved in very cold weather, thus 12,6 seconds. It won't go below that, though. It's not much slower than the 997TT, but it isn't as fast or faster.

    Re: 997 Turbo - controversial discussions/claims after AZ re

    That's it; I am convinced. I am going to sell my 430 Spider make about a $70,000 profit and buy the ugly 997TT which should depreciate about $35,000 after one year. That fraction of a second in performance between the two cars is just too much for me to take.

    Re: 997 Turbo - controversial discussions/claims after AZ re

    Nick I was wondering how long it would be until you joined this discussion The thing is while the turbo may only be a half second faster from 0-200kph, Around the ring the difference is closer to 15 seconds.

    Re: 997 Turbo - controversial discussions/claims after AZ re

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    That's it; I am convinced. I am going to sell my 430 Spider make about a $70,000 profit and buy the ugly 997TT which should depreciate about $35,000 after one year. That fraction of a second in performance between the two cars is just too much for me to take.



    Nick loves profit.

    Re: 997 Turbo - controversial discussions/claims after AZ re

    Quote:
    Hurst said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    That's it; I am convinced. I am going to sell my 430 Spider make about a $70,000 profit and buy the ugly 997TT which should depreciate about $35,000 after one year. That fraction of a second in performance between the two cars is just too much for me to take.



    Nick loves profit.



    Autoweek bought a 997S for $90,000, drove it for one year and when they went to trade it in were told they would only get $57,000 for it. Not bad for a Porsche, $33,000 depreciation in one year. Sorry, I prefer to keep my money and not light a match to it.

    Re: 997 Turbo - controversial discussions/claims after AZ re

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    svtrader1 said:
    The f430 had standard street tires and a rear license plate. That should put RC's "ringer" theory to rest.



    1. the car TESTED (not the one on the pictures!) had Corsas
    2. since when is it allowed to drive with a rear license plate only in Europe? Look at the rear license plate and since you seem to be a clever boy, tell me WHAT KIND of license plate this is in Italy?

    Guys, I really don't understand all this stuff. If you want to know if a 997 Turbo is faster than a F430, just wait until we have our shootout. Our other editor-in-chief owns a F430 Spider, zzboba our co-Admin and friend owns a F430 Coupe, so just tell me: where's the problem, I don't get it?!



    I'm not as clever a boy as you, so, I can't figure out what license plates are from what country and whether it's legal or not legal.

    But, if the F430 used in the comparison was a "ringer" equipped with Corsas, then explain to me how it's lap time is slower than the car tested over a year ago?

    Comparison test lap time: 138.1

    Last test: 1.36.9 http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=90540&page=&fpart=1&vc=1

    Also, is your car going to have the proper "break in" miles? No, excuses right?

    Re: 997 Turbo - controversial discussions/claims after AZ re

    a tt will not depreciate 35k after one year.

    Re: 997 Turbo - controversial discussions/claims after AZ review

    The turbo's not a beauty queen. I have to disagree. I think it's the best looking Porsche road car built to date.
    By the way, I just went to look at a new Z06. Sorry but talk about cheao. I don't care how fast it is.
    The rocket propelled VW bug is fast too, but I'd never be seen near one.

    Re: 997 Turbo - controversial discussions/claims after AZ re

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Christian, as a F430F1 Spider owner and a person who tried both versions of 997 Turbo I can say that 997 Turbo is faster then F430. In both versions! And it is faster on the track also, specially when you put Cup's or Corsa's(soon to be available in N-rated version for 997 GT3 and Turbo)!
    Guys, Gallardo is faster on any track then F430 and Turbo is little bit faster then Gallardo also...
    Hope you are all happy now...



    I'm really angry now. Couldn't you have told that to us a tiny bit earlier? So all 997 Turbo owners can go to bed now with a peace of mind, right?!

    But wait...wasn't there another thing...ehh...car...what's the name...Z06?

    We have one available too for comparison, hopefully it works out this weekend, if not a couple of weeks later.

    Re: 997 Turbo - controversial discussions/claims after AZ re

    That Z06 thing... Maybe you will get to drive it


    If you do.. dont put your right foot down unless you really mean it,

    They have some serious power after 100mph.


    Re: 997 Turbo - controversial discussions/claims after AZ re

    A Porsche 997TT will eat the Ferrari 430 alive!
    Of course it's always been that way. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss!

    Re: 997 Turbo - controversial discussions/claims after AZ re

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Christian, as a F430F1 Spider owner and a person who tried both versions of 997 Turbo I can say that 997 Turbo is faster then F430. In both versions! And it is faster on the track also, specially when you put Cup's or Corsa's(soon to be available in N-rated version for 997 GT3 and Turbo)!
    Guys, Gallardo is faster on any track then F430 and Turbo is little bit faster then Gallardo also...
    Hope you are all happy now...



    I'm really angry now. Couldn't you have told that to us a tiny bit earlier? So all 997 Turbo owners can go to bed now with a peace of mind, right?!

    But wait...wasn't there another thing...ehh...car...what's the name...Z06?

    We have one available too for comparison, hopefully it works out this weekend, if not a couple of weeks later.



    Before I modded my Z, I raced an F430 and easily ran away from it. Sleep well!

    Re: 997 Turbo - controversial discussions/claims after AZ re

    Quote:
    DJ996 said:
    A Porsche 997TT will eat the Ferrari 430 alive!
    Of course it's always been that way. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss!


    Roger Daltry has left the building...

    Re: 997 Turbo - controversial discussions/claims after AZ re

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Christian, as a F430F1 Spider owner and a person who tried both versions of 997 Turbo I can say that 997 Turbo is faster then F430. In both versions! And it is faster on the track also, specially when you put Cup's or Corsa's(soon to be available in N-rated version for 997 GT3 and Turbo)!
    Guys, Gallardo is faster on any track then F430 and Turbo is little bit faster then Gallardo also...
    Hope you are all happy now...



    I'm really angry now. Couldn't you have told that to us a tiny bit earlier? So all 997 Turbo owners can go to bed now with a peace of mind, right?!

    But wait...wasn't there another thing...ehh...car...what's the name...Z06?

    We have one available too for comparison, hopefully it works out this weekend, if not a couple of weeks later.



    Dear Christian..

    all Turbo guys are with you..take the foot down!!

    Re: 997 Turbo - controversial discussions/claims after AZ re

    Quote:
    RonnieC6Z said:
    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Christian, as a F430F1 Spider owner and a person who tried both versions of 997 Turbo I can say that 997 Turbo is faster then F430. In both versions! And it is faster on the track also, specially when you put Cup's or Corsa's(soon to be available in N-rated version for 997 GT3 and Turbo)!
    Guys, Gallardo is faster on any track then F430 and Turbo is little bit faster then Gallardo also...
    Hope you are all happy now...



    I'm really angry now. Couldn't you have told that to us a tiny bit earlier? So all 997 Turbo owners can go to bed now with a peace of mind, right?!

    But wait...wasn't there another thing...ehh...car...what's the name...Z06?

    We have one available too for comparison, hopefully it works out this weekend, if not a couple of weeks later.



    Before I modded my Z, I raced an F430 and easily ran away from it. Sleep well!



    Do you honestly think the F430 driver was racing you? He was just on his way to Starbucks.

    Re: 997 Turbo - controversial discussions/claims after AZ re

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    Hurst said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    That's it; I am convinced. I am going to sell my 430 Spider make about a $70,000 profit and buy the ugly 997TT which should depreciate about $35,000 after one year. That fraction of a second in performance between the two cars is just too much for me to take.



    Nick loves profit.



    Autoweek bought a 997S for $90,000, drove it for one year and when they went to trade it in were told they would only get $57,000 for it. Not bad for a Porsche, $33,000 depreciation in one year. Sorry, I prefer to keep my money and not light a match to it.



    Why would you want to sell a fantastic machine like a 997s or for that matter an F430 after one year?

    These cars are not commodities to be spurned around for shelling out a buck...at some point, when motorsports might have captured your heart (you being the emblematic consumer, not specifically you nberry) there must have been a motivation beyond profitability?

    I understand if resale factors into the means of purchase (i.e. if you are lucky enough to be on the good good with Ferrari, you might have the means to get an F430 due to its resale rather than a comperable 200k car in the US which does not hold its value), but good grief...

    Haven't we lost something in the process...or is it my naievte?

    Re: 997 Turbo - controversial discussions/claims after AZ re

    Quote:
    The 911 Turbo never has been the beauty queen, it has always been the beast



    I actually think the 997 Turbo looks really nice.

    Re: 997 Turbo - controversial discussions/claims after AZ re

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Christian, as a F430F1 Spider owner and a person who tried both versions of 997 Turbo I can say that 997 Turbo is faster then F430. In both versions! And it is faster on the track also, specially when you put Cup's or Corsa's(soon to be available in N-rated version for 997 GT3 and Turbo)!
    Guys, Gallardo is faster on any track then F430 and Turbo is little bit faster then Gallardo also...
    Hope you are all happy now...



    My MK1 GT3 is faster than F430, I try with yellow F430 F1 spider and up to 240 km/h I was 4-5 car lenghts in front of him

    Re: 997 Turbo - controversial discussions/claims after AZ re

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Christian, as a F430F1 Spider owner and a person who tried both versions of 997 Turbo I can say that 997 Turbo is faster then F430. In both versions! And it is faster on the track also, specially when you put Cup's or Corsa's(soon to be available in N-rated version for 997 GT3 and Turbo)!
    Guys, Gallardo is faster on any track then F430 and Turbo is little bit faster then Gallardo also...
    Hope you are all happy now...



    I'm really angry now. Couldn't you have told that to us a tiny bit earlier? So all 997 Turbo owners can go to bed now with a peace of mind, right?!

    But wait...wasn't there another thing...ehh...car...what's the name...Z06?

    We have one available too for comparison, hopefully it works out this weekend, if not a couple of weeks later.



    The spider driver is not very smart if he was comparing his spider to cupes, coupes have more rigidity, aerodinamics, and .... coupes are inherently faster then spiders. And why would that be the final word on 430 vs 997 tt, are u expert or something, the last time I looked this was a Porsche mainly forum maybe u guys arent driveing the 430 the way it should be. Or u have a 977 tt ringer.

    Re: 997 Turbo - controversial discussions/claims after AZ re

    I don't really care which car is faster, they're both insanely fast cars anyway.
    I own the 997tt and LOVE it, but I'm not embarassed to say that I own a 430, either coupe or spyder in a heartbeat.

    Re: 997 Turbo - controversial discussions/claims after AZ re

    Quote:
    ALDOGT3 said:
    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Christian, as a F430F1 Spider owner and a person who tried both versions of 997 Turbo I can say that 997 Turbo is faster then F430. In both versions! And it is faster on the track also, specially when you put Cup's or Corsa's(soon to be available in N-rated version for 997 GT3 and Turbo)!
    Guys, Gallardo is faster on any track then F430 and Turbo is little bit faster then Gallardo also...
    Hope you are all happy now...



    My MK1 GT3 is faster than F430, I try with yellow F430 F1 spider and up to 240 km/h I was 4-5 car lenghts in front of him



    Your living in fantasy land. My 360 destroyes a GT3. it was so bad that the driver son about 10 yrs old eyes were so wide open i thought he was ET. The driver was just shaking his head. The 430 is a hell of a lot more car.

    Hurst you are missing it. These are toys to be enjoyed and like anything else you move on. What you do not want to do is buy a toy that substantially lightens your wallet.

    Re: 997 Turbo - controversial discussions/claims after AZ re

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    ALDOGT3 said:
    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Christian, as a F430F1 Spider owner and a person who tried both versions of 997 Turbo I can say that 997 Turbo is faster then F430. In both versions! And it is faster on the track also, specially when you put Cup's or Corsa's(soon to be available in N-rated version for 997 GT3 and Turbo)!
    Guys, Gallardo is faster on any track then F430 and Turbo is little bit faster then Gallardo also...
    Hope you are all happy now...



    My MK1 GT3 is faster than F430, I try with yellow F430 F1 spider and up to 240 km/h I was 4-5 car lenghts in front of him



    Your living in fantasy land. My 360 destroyes a GT3. it was so bad that the driver son about 10 yrs old eyes were so wide open i thought he was ET. The driver was just shaking his head. The 430 is a hell of a lot more car.

    Hurst you are missing it. These are toys to be enjoyed and like anything else you move on. What you do not want to do is buy a toy that substantially lightens your wallet.



    That was true ( I also have F430 F1 and before that 360 CS but I sold it a few days ago and bought 996 GT2, the F430 is first Ferrari who drives better than it looks) but I forgot to tell You that my GT3 is 3.8 liter 450 PS . The driver of Ferrari was in shock, we try several times with same result (both cars with only drivers).

    Re: 997 Turbo - controversial discussions/claims after AZ re

    Quote:
    ALDOGT3 said:
    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Christian, as a F430F1 Spider owner and a person who tried both versions of 997 Turbo I can say that 997 Turbo is faster then F430. In both versions! And it is faster on the track also, specially when you put Cup's or Corsa's(soon to be available in N-rated version for 997 GT3 and Turbo)!
    Guys, Gallardo is faster on any track then F430 and Turbo is little bit faster then Gallardo also...
    Hope you are all happy now...



    My MK1 GT3 is faster than F430, I try with yellow F430 F1 spider and up to 240 km/h I was 4-5 car lenghts in front of him



    Lol I used to have a MK1 GT3!
    I loved this car but i made it from 360hp 400 in roock motorsport (Germany) in order to be able to pass all the 360 and 996 Turbo with 420hp. (NOT MODIFIED) Manual or Tip.
    I also made the gears a little bit shorter as I remember with 400 hp without modification my 3rd gear reach 193kmh !!
    But with this car I wasnt able BY NO MEANS to pass a F430..
    F430 is a really FAST car gt3 is slow.. For this reason i sold it and i wanted to buy a 996 GT2.

    Maybe you have to become best friend with the guy with the Cayenne Turbo S who says also that passed a F430....

     
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