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    Re: Tiff Drives the C6 Z06

    Quote:
    CarreraGtRacer said:
    Tiff is such an amazing driver!



    The understatement of the month

    Re: Tiff Drives the C6 Z06

    If you're speaking of his drifting skills,you should make a trip to Japan and think about what you wrote.

    Re: Tiff Drives the C6 Z06

    Quote:
    Walter said:
    If you're speaking of his drifting skills,you should make a trip to Japan and think about what you wrote.



    "He's raced all over the world in saloons, sportscars and single-seaters, including an all too fleeting experience in Formula One. Tiff has raced at the Le Mans 24 hours an incredible 14 times, and his proudest moment came in 1990, when he achieved third place in a privately entered Porsche 962."

    his skills go waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay beyond just drifting

    Source

    Re: Tiff Drives the C6 Z06

    Thank you, CarreraGtRacer!

    Dry Sump, Carbon Fiber, Magnesium, 7,000 rpm, Fixed-piston calipers, Salisbury/Clutch-type LSD, Variable Stability Control, Optional Side Airbags, HUD, curb weight 3147 lbs. (Car&Driver), 22 cu. ft. luggage, 468 mile highway range, Child weight-sensing passenger airbag, warranty will not be voided for DE or autocross...

    What flaws am I missing besides the bump-steer and too-soft-for-Ring suspension?

    Re: Tiff Drives the C6 Z06

    Wow.
    Nice video and thumbs up to the Z06.

    Re: Tiff Drives the C6 Z06

    Great video. Thanks!

    At least one European likes it. Now we wait Von Saurma's judgment.

    Re: Tiff Drives the C6 Z06

    actually the guys at top gear liked it too... except Clarkson believes that it is just too racy to be a road car opposed to a track car.

    Seems to me that Clarkson is a hypocrite when it comes to these things. He believes that a Exige (though fully plastic and rather cheap in build quality and engine).... is an amazing car (despite the fact that a rock from the road could bust a hole in its plexiglass body. And yet b/c the ZO6 has carbon fiber and plexiglass and plastic.. it is cheap.

    (meanwhile he drives a Ford GT).

    Re: Tiff Drives the C6 Z06

    I liked the note to Clarkson at the end.

    Re: Tiff Drives the C6 Z06

    Finally a fair review by someone from the UK. Clarkson and friends ripped apart the regular Vette.

    Re: Tiff Drives the C6 Z06

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    I liked the note to Clarkson at the end.

    It's true.

    Re: Tiff Drives the C6 Z06

    Quote:
    Walter said:
    If you're speaking of his drifting skills,you should make a trip to Japan and think about what you wrote.

    I'm speaking of his overall driving ability...Tiff is an amazing driver that has racing history.

    Re: Tiff Drives the C6 Z06

    Quote:
    W8MM said:
    Quote:
    CarreraGtRacer said:
    Tiff is such an amazing driver!



    The understatement of the month

    It's better to understate then overstate IMO

    Re: Tiff Drives the C6 Z06

    haha this is hilarious


    Re: Tiff Drives the C6 Z06

    Thats too funny!

    Its interior is not that bad. Look at as a 40K sports car with 25K in engine and suspension options.

    Re: Tiff Drives the C6 Z06

    I've been impressed with the numbers of the Z06 since day one.
    The overall performance, speed, handling, and most importantly: Price tag.
    All impressive numbers IMO (altho it will run you 250,000USD on danish plates...).
    As I've said before: The challenge is its heritage and brand value - or lack thereof.
    Personally I would never spend money on one, since I don't trust its build quality, I dislike the interior and am not crazy about the design.
    Build quality will naturally be a matter of time before we know.
    And last but not least; to me the brand that is Corvette is not even close to F or P in terms of brand value.
    At least it doesnt represent the values I identify with.

    But judging the car purely on merit and physical traits it seems stunning.
    The sound is amazing and handling looks like a dream.

    Hope I will be able to try one. I have only seen ONE in Denmark, and I'm not even sure you can get a test ride at the dealer...

    Re: Tiff Drives the C6 Z06

    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    I've been impressed with the numbers of the Z06 since day one.
    The overall performance, speed, handling, and most importantly: Price tag.
    All impressive numbers IMO (altho it will run you 250,000USD on danish plates...).
    As I've said before: The challenge is its heritage and brand value - or lack thereof.
    Personally I would never spend money on one, since I don't trust its build quality, I dislike the interior and am not crazy about the design.
    Build quality will naturally be a matter of time before we know.
    And last but not least; to me the brand that is Corvette is not even close to F or P in terms of brand value.
    At least it doesnt represent the values I identify with.

    But judging the car purely on merit and physical traits it seems stunning.
    The sound is amazing and handling looks like a dream.

    Hope I will be able to try one. I have only seen ONE in Denmark, and I'm not even sure you can get a test ride at the dealer...



    The aptly named SS Corvette might be the Blitzkrieg tool Chevy is looking for. A car that costs under 100.000 Euros, with hopefully better interior than the C6Z and 700 horsepower (200 more than the Z), might prove to be too irresistible to even some P and F fans. Of course, only as an adition to their stables .
    Well summed up. Hate the shape, the image, the materials, don't care for its heritage, but love the performance.

    Re: Tiff Drives the C6 Z06


    Some things are reversed between Porsche and Corvette now.

    Corvette is now the under dog trying to chop down the Porsche street performance giant.

    Porsche has vacated its historical performance philosphy of lightweight, rugged and simple and moved onto fat, soft and complex.

    Corvette now owns the lightweight, rugged and simple auto real estate. I wish Porsche would do something out of the box that reflects their previous brand values and engineering philsophy.

    Re: Tiff Drives the C6 Z06

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    I wish Porsche would do something out of the box that reflects their previous brand values and engineering philsophy.



    How about a 997TTSS with VTG's boosted to 1.5bar, peak torque of 600lb-ft at 2,000rpm's, peak HP of 600PS at 6,000rpm's, kerb weight at 3,000lb with a CF monocoque substructure, 100 cell cats with 100dB exhaust noise at idle/120dB at 6,000rpm's, good for 0-100kph in 3 flat, quarter < 11 flat, and 2-3 summons per month to town court for violations of the local environmental ordinance governing acceptable sound thresholds for motor vehicles?

    Re: Tiff Drives the C6 Z06

    the interior, is not the only thing wrong with the car, Ben

    Re: Tiff Drives the C6 Z06

    Quote:
    Turbo Al said:
    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    I wish Porsche would do something out of the box that reflects their previous brand values and engineering philsophy.



    How about a 997TTSS with VTG's boosted to 1.5bar, peak torque of 600lb-ft at 2,000rpm's, peak HP of 600PS at 6,000rpm's, kerb weight at 3,000lb with a CF monocoque substructure, 100 cell cats with 100dB exhaust noise at idle/120dB at 6,000rpm's, good for 0-100kph in 3 flat, quarter < 11 flat, and 2-3 summons per month to town court for violations of the local environmental ordinance governing acceptable sound thresholds for motor vehicles?



    No.

    Id prefer a 350hp engine in a 2200lb car instead.

    They could build one, and I am simply telling them to.
    Lets see if they listen.

    Re: Tiff Drives the C6 Z06

    again... C6 Z06 rocks!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Re: Tiff Drives the C6 Z06

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    I've been impressed with the numbers of the Z06 since day one.
    The overall performance, speed, handling, and most importantly: Price tag.
    All impressive numbers IMO (altho it will run you 250,000USD on danish plates...).
    As I've said before: The challenge is its heritage and brand value - or lack thereof.
    Personally I would never spend money on one, since I don't trust its build quality, I dislike the interior and am not crazy about the design.
    Build quality will naturally be a matter of time before we know.
    And last but not least; to me the brand that is Corvette is not even close to F or P in terms of brand value.
    At least it doesnt represent the values I identify with.

    But judging the car purely on merit and physical traits it seems stunning.
    The sound is amazing and handling looks like a dream.

    Hope I will be able to try one. I have only seen ONE in Denmark, and I'm not even sure you can get a test ride at the dealer...



    The aptly named SS Corvette might be the Blitzkrieg tool Chevy is looking for. A car that costs under 100.000 Euros, with hopefully better interior than the C6Z and 700 horsepower (200 more than the Z), might prove to be too irresistible to even some P and F fans. Of course, only as an adition to their stables .
    Well summed up. Hate the shape, the image, the materials, don't care for its heritage, but love the performance.



    I think you are confusing the purpose of the car. Dave Hill NEVER once thought the car would replace the stable of exotic cars in the rich and famous' garages. He did not build the car for the type of people that say...Ferrari builds cars for. He wanted the car to be affordable and non-exclusive (which is why they are building several thousand of them). I hope they never put a hand stitched leather interior inside. I hope they stay away from DOHC engines as well. These are all things that drive the price of the car up and do nothing (in my opinion) for the performance or value of the car. I mean...would you really buy a $150k Corvette? Dave Hill knows this.

    As far as quality...don't confuse percieved build quality with everday reliability. A Ferrari or Porsche's panels may fit more tightly, but I would GUARANTEE that the Z06 will have far greater street reliability than any Ferrari, Lambo or similar performance car. You have to keep in mind that this car will beat many super exotics on road courses (as proven) but still have a $60 oil change that can be performed by a truck mechanic. As far as maintenance, Ferrari is one of the most expensive cars to maintain with annual services in the $10,000 range. How ridiculous is that? Why is this never spoken about on this forum? One could even go as far to say that by relaibility standards, a Lambo is a POS.

    So I think reliability will actually be the Z06's STRONGEST characteristic compared to similar performing cars. I guarantee a CGT, 575, F430, Pagani, Lambo will all break down way more often and cost much more to maintain. At least in the US, an alternator for a Z06 is a 10th of the price of an alternator to the nearest performing competitor. Anyone can build an supercar for $250k, try building one for $60k...oh and make 7000 of them a year!

    As far as image...you need to get over that.

    Re: Tiff Drives the C6 Z06

    Quote:
    95jersey said:
    I guarantee...




    Re: Tiff Drives the C6 Z06

    Quote:
    95jersey said:

    I think you are confusing the purpose of the car. Dave Hill NEVER once thought the car would replace the stable of exotic cars in the rich and famous' garages. He did not build the car for the type of people that say...Ferrari builds cars for. He wanted the car to be affordable and non-exclusive (which is why they are building several thousand of them). I hope they never put a hand stitched leather interior inside. I hope they stay away from DOHC engines as well. These are all things that drive the price of the car up and do nothing (in my opinion) for the performance or value of the car. I mean...would you really buy a $150k Corvette? Dave Hill knows this.

    As far as quality...don't confuse percieved build quality with everday reliability. A Ferrari or Porsche's panels may fit more tightly, but I would GUARANTEE that the Z06 will have far greater street reliability than any Ferrari, Lambo or similar performance car. You have to keep in mind that this car will beat many super exotics on road courses (as proven) but still have a $60 oil change that can be performed by a truck mechanic. As far as maintenance, Ferrari is one of the most expensive cars to maintain with annual services in the $10,000 range. How ridiculous is that? Why is this never spoken about on this forum? One could even go as far to say that by relaibility standards, a Lambo is a POS.

    So I think reliability will actually be the Z06's STRONGEST characteristic compared to similar performing cars. I guarantee a CGT, 575, F430, Pagani, Lambo will all break down way more often and cost much more to maintain. At least in the US, an alternator for a Z06 is a 10th of the price of an alternator to the nearest performing competitor. Anyone can build an supercar for $250k, try building one for $60k...oh and make 7000 of them a year!

    As far as image...you need to get over that.



    Previous Corvettes had strange problems.The diff overheats if your spend too much on the highway and the exhaust rusted in some cars.

    I don't think that changing oil is not that easy because it has a dry sump lubrification.I would let someone qualified for this change the oil for me.It also has about 8L of synthetic oil(that alone costs more than $60).You have to change it every 15,000km(!!).Inspection is every 30,000km...it's not a big interval for such a reliable car.

    Also,do you know how many brake pads a Z06 has?It's probably the car with the most brake pads in the world...

    Then,there are the tires.You have to buy the Goodyears that are surely not that cheap.Oh yeah,runflats are faster on a track than conventional tires.So,no more "if it had Michelins...".

    There's also the depreciation.The bad plastics and fiber glass body will probably not look too good after some winters and summers.

    These are only some of the reasons why the Corvette is so cheap.Many people say "why doesn't GM make it 5000 euros more expensive and give a Porsche-like interior?".These people don't know that making the wipers and AC more silent and effective,making things look smell and feel better,make sure that there aren't aerodynamical noises at 250km/h,make it safe for the driver AND pedestrians,make it drivable for everyone,etc etc, needs so much R&D that at the end it's really expensive.The car also needs more time to be build.

    European manufacturers build cars for the absolute worst cases.American manufacturers take short cuts.I don't think GM wondered if anybody can drive a RWD 500hp car on a wet road...European manufacturers do care about that but they also wonder if the temperature remained constantly low in the cabine for 5 hours under the sun and if the drivers @ss(or any other body part) hurts after a 500km trip

    Re: Tiff Drives the C6 Z06

    "There's also the depreciation.The bad plastics and fiber glass body will probably not look too good after some winters and summers"

    How much can a $65,000 car depreciate compared to a $150K car? You really going to tell me that this Z06 will depreciate more in 3 years, then say a 911TT or Ferrari. Those cars are great cars, but their depreciation will match the total cost of a new Z. I did a Kelly Blue Book on a 2003 911TT and it came up $87,000 (retail) That is a depreciation of $63,000 in 3 years given the car was $150 new. A Z06 will always be in demand becuase of the performance value and will probably still be worth $45k minimum after 3 years.

    $300 brake pads every 1-2 years (street driving) will seem cheap compared to Ferrari or 911TT wearable parts by a long shot.

    As far as bad plastics and fiber glass...it's really about the paint quality, fiberglass won't deteriorate from sun or winter. Matter of fact, unlike steel or even aluminum, fiberglass will NEVER rust. I think you are comparing the new Z06 to a quality of a 1984 C4. Unlike the 911, it's a completely different car.

    Also, we are not aruging that Corvette's aren't "cheap", that's the best part. For me on a scale of 1-10, performance is a 10, interior is a 2. If you want a nice interior, buy a Mercedes or BMW as an everyday car. Compare the Z06 to a Lotus Exige, would you complain about these things in a Lotus?

    Re: Tiff Drives the C6 Z06

    Quote:
    95jersey said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    I've been impressed with the numbers of the Z06 since day one.
    The overall performance, speed, handling, and most importantly: Price tag.
    All impressive numbers IMO (altho it will run you 250,000USD on danish plates...).
    As I've said before: The challenge is its heritage and brand value - or lack thereof.
    Personally I would never spend money on one, since I don't trust its build quality, I dislike the interior and am not crazy about the design.
    Build quality will naturally be a matter of time before we know.
    And last but not least; to me the brand that is Corvette is not even close to F or P in terms of brand value.
    At least it doesnt represent the values I identify with.

    But judging the car purely on merit and physical traits it seems stunning.
    The sound is amazing and handling looks like a dream.

    Hope I will be able to try one. I have only seen ONE in Denmark, and I'm not even sure you can get a test ride at the dealer...



    The aptly named SS Corvette might be the Blitzkrieg tool Chevy is looking for. A car that costs under 100.000 Euros, with hopefully better interior than the C6Z and 700 horsepower (200 more than the Z), might prove to be too irresistible to even some P and F fans. Of course, only as an adition to their stables .
    Well summed up. Hate the shape, the image, the materials, don't care for its heritage, but love the performance.



    I think you are confusing the purpose of the car. Dave Hill NEVER once thought the car would replace the stable of exotic cars in the rich and famous' garages. He did not build the car for the type of people that say...Ferrari builds cars for. He wanted the car to be affordable and non-exclusive (which is why they are building several thousand of them). I hope they never put a hand stitched leather interior inside. I hope they stay away from DOHC engines as well. These are all things that drive the price of the car up and do nothing (in my opinion) for the performance or value of the car. I mean...would you really buy a $150k Corvette? Dave Hill knows this.

    As far as quality...don't confuse percieved build quality with everday reliability. A Ferrari or Porsche's panels may fit more tightly, but I would GUARANTEE that the Z06 will have far greater street reliability than any Ferrari, Lambo or similar performance car. You have to keep in mind that this car will beat many super exotics on road courses (as proven) but still have a $60 oil change that can be performed by a truck mechanic. As far as maintenance, Ferrari is one of the most expensive cars to maintain with annual services in the $10,000 range. How ridiculous is that? Why is this never spoken about on this forum? One could even go as far to say that by relaibility standards, a Lambo is a POS.

    So I think reliability will actually be the Z06's STRONGEST characteristic compared to similar performing cars. I guarantee a CGT, 575, F430, Pagani, Lambo will all break down way more often and cost much more to maintain. At least in the US, an alternator for a Z06 is a 10th of the price of an alternator to the nearest performing competitor. Anyone can build an supercar for $250k, try building one for $60k...oh and make 7000 of them a year!

    As far as image...you need to get over that.



    I have to concur with most of what you say. However, a special version of the Corvette (SS?), if Chevy so desired, could probably be pushed into the upper class market. Imagine it using carbon fiber outer panels, with a flawless paint job, exquisite interior, differing optics when compared to the C6 and the Z and a monster powerplant. Nobody ever said the engine needed DOHC or any other gimmick (it's useful for smaller engines, but not at 7 liters), so engine cost would be no greater. I mean, the SS will cost a fortune (compared to the other two Corvettes) anyway, so why not make it top of the line in everything?
    Regarding Ferraris, a guy named Shawn from Florida paid 14.000 USD for a 10.000-mile service on his 360 several years ago. Things are cheaper in Europe, btw. (only poseur Americans let themselves get screwed like that).
    Regarding reliability, you never know. The Carrera GT is built as well as they come (probably the highest quality car in the world). The Zondas I have no clue about, I agree regarding Ferrari reliability, but the Lambos now have german engineering behind them and are not even remotely similar to their predecessors.

    Re: Tiff Drives the C6 Z06

    Quote:
    Walter said:
    Quote:
    95jersey said:

    I think you are confusing the purpose of the car. Dave Hill NEVER once thought the car would replace the stable of exotic cars in the rich and famous' garages. He did not build the car for the type of people that say...Ferrari builds cars for. He wanted the car to be affordable and non-exclusive (which is why they are building several thousand of them). I hope they never put a hand stitched leather interior inside. I hope they stay away from DOHC engines as well. These are all things that drive the price of the car up and do nothing (in my opinion) for the performance or value of the car. I mean...would you really buy a $150k Corvette? Dave Hill knows this.

    As far as quality...don't confuse percieved build quality with everday reliability. A Ferrari or Porsche's panels may fit more tightly, but I would GUARANTEE that the Z06 will have far greater street reliability than any Ferrari, Lambo or similar performance car. You have to keep in mind that this car will beat many super exotics on road courses (as proven) but still have a $60 oil change that can be performed by a truck mechanic. As far as maintenance, Ferrari is one of the most expensive cars to maintain with annual services in the $10,000 range. How ridiculous is that? Why is this never spoken about on this forum? One could even go as far to say that by relaibility standards, a Lambo is a POS.

    So I think reliability will actually be the Z06's STRONGEST characteristic compared to similar performing cars. I guarantee a CGT, 575, F430, Pagani, Lambo will all break down way more often and cost much more to maintain. At least in the US, an alternator for a Z06 is a 10th of the price of an alternator to the nearest performing competitor. Anyone can build an supercar for $250k, try building one for $60k...oh and make 7000 of them a year!

    As far as image...you need to get over that.



    Previous Corvettes had strange problems.The diff overheats if your spend too much on the highway and the exhaust rusted in some cars.

    I don't think that changing oil is not that easy because it has a dry sump lubrification.I would let someone qualified for this change the oil for me.It also has about 8L of synthetic oil(that alone costs more than $60).You have to change it every 15,000km(!!).Inspection is every 30,000km...it's not a big interval for such a reliable car.

    Also,do you know how many brake pads a Z06 has?It's probably the car with the most brake pads in the world...

    Then,there are the tires.You have to buy the Goodyears that are surely not that cheap.Oh yeah,runflats are faster on a track than conventional tires.So,no more "if it had Michelins...".

    There's also the depreciation.The bad plastics and fiber glass body will probably not look too good after some winters and summers.

    These are only some of the reasons why the Corvette is so cheap.Many people say "why doesn't GM make it 5000 euros more expensive and give a Porsche-like interior?".These people don't know that making the wipers and AC more silent and effective,making things look smell and feel better,make sure that there aren't aerodynamical noises at 250km/h,make it safe for the driver AND pedestrians,make it drivable for everyone,etc etc, needs so much R&D that at the end it's really expensive.The car also needs more time to be build.

    European manufacturers build cars for the absolute worst cases.American manufacturers take short cuts.I don't think GM wondered if anybody can drive a RWD 500hp car on a wet road...European manufacturers do care about that but they also wonder if the temperature remained constantly low in the cabine for 5 hours under the sun and if the drivers @ss(or any other body part) hurts after a 500km trip



    Nicely put.

    Re: Tiff Drives the C6 Z06

    Quote "European manufacturers build cars for the absolute worst cases.American manufacturers take short cuts.I don't think "GM wondered if anybody can drive a RWD 500hp car on a wet road...European manufacturers do care about that but they also wonder if the temperature remained constantly low in the cabine for 5 hours under the sun and if the drivers @ss(or any other body part) hurts after a 500km trip"


    So if you got into a 360 Challenge Stradale and your @ss hurt after 500km, you would be disapointed?!?! I think European manufacturers are more pompous than anything. If American manufacturers take short cuts that give me 505HP motor in a race wining chassis for $65k...let me be the first to throw out the heated/cooling seats! A wet road? Wouldn't a Corvette, Ferrari or 911TT usually be a second car? Use the AWD SUV for the bad weather.

    Is this a sports car forum or is this a hair saloon? Your talking about a 500hp supercar for $65, and your worried about cabin temps?

    None of this is meant to be taken personally, this is just a good healthy debate.

    Re: Tiff Drives the C6 Z06

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    The Carrera GT is built as well as they come (probably the highest quality car in the world).



    http://money.cnn.com/2005/05/18/Autos/quality_study/

     
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