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    Re: Huracán Performante in "6.52 something" at the Ring?

    MKSGR:
    Topspeed:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kq3fJmQLok

     

     

     

    The background for this video are many posts that claim that Lamborghini has just increased the speed of the video to produce the claimed lap time. Apparently, if you compare speeds in many parts of the track you can prove that Lamborghini cheated by speeding up the video Smiley 

    Markus, they aren't that stupid. Smiley

    I think we owe Lamborghini an independent review and it will be available in autumn.

    Btw: Porsche helped with this active aero and I heard it is extremely effective. Just let Lamborghini surprise us before we start accusing them of cheating. There is no proof for that...yet.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Huracán Performante in "6.52 something" at the Ring?

    There is no chance the 640HP STOCK Performante that will be sold to the customers is going to do a 6:52 in the Ring,  not even close, if using a prototype engine, a team of engineers tweeking suspensions and setup specifically for the Ring, using especifically deloped R compound tires for the Ring lap time, and so on is not cheating then... the video discrepancies is just the icon on the cake. They got their headlines in the press though, most people won't even realice the lap time is unrealistic, as they don't get past the headlines, so its worked for them.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Huracán Performante in "6.52 something" at the Ring?

    Someone makes the  ridiculous statement that the video is fake and suddenly people start repeating simply because it fits their irrational bias...Fake news dropped in an echo chamber...in the making. 


    Re: Huracán Performante in "6.52 something" at the Ring?

    Lets waite and see independent tests before we get any conclusion. 


    --

     

    J.Seven

     

     

     


    Re: Huracán Performante in "6.52 something" at the Ring?

    Porsche and Lambo belongs to the same group, why would VW allow Lambo to cheat and not Porsche?


    Re: Huracán Performante in "6.52 something" at the Ring?

    RC:
    MKSGR:
    Topspeed:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kq3fJmQLok

     

     

     

    The background for this video are many posts that claim that Lamborghini has just increased the speed of the video to produce the claimed lap time. Apparently, if you compare speeds in many parts of the track you can prove that Lamborghini cheated by speeding up the video Smiley 

    Markus, they aren't that stupid. Smiley

    I think we owe Lamborghini an independent review and it will be available in autumn.

    Btw: Porsche helped with this active aero and I heard it is extremely effective. Just let Lamborghini surprise us before we start accusing them of cheating. There is no proof for that...yet.

    Did you check if the claim is true? I don't bother enough to invest the time...


    Re: Huracán Performante in "6.52 something" at the Ring?

    Carlos from Spain:

    There is no chance the 640HP STOCK Performante that will be sold to the customers is going to do a 6:52 in the Ring,  not even close, if using a prototype engine, a team of engineers tweeking suspensions and setup specifically for the Ring, using especifically deloped R compound tires for the Ring lap time, and so on is not cheating then... the video discrepancies is just the icon on the cake. They got their headlines in the press though, most people won't even realice the lap time is unrealistic, as they don't get past the headlines, so its worked for them.

    Wasnt' the LFA n-ring edition able to do a 7:14 on really old tires? Then how isn't it possible for the Performante?  Plus, did you watch the video I posted earlier? There were several instance where the performante was able to get on the power earlier and come of out a corner 20-30kph faster than the 918 was.  The cake is a lie. 


    Re: Huracán Performante in "6.52 something" at the Ring?

    SciFrog:

    Porsche and Lambo belongs to the same group, why would VW allow Lambo to cheat and not Porsche?

    You are right, they should let Porsche cheat as well......Smiley


    Re: Huracán Performante in "6.52 something" at the Ring?

    Carlos from Spain:

    There is no chance the 640HP STOCK Performante that will be sold to the customers is going to do a 6:52 in the Ring,  not even close, if using a prototype engine, a team of engineers tweeking suspensions and setup specifically for the Ring, using especifically deloped R compound tires for the Ring lap time, and so on is not cheating then... the video discrepancies is just the icon on the cake. They got their headlines in the press though, most people won't even realice the lap time is unrealistic, as they don't get past the headlines, so its worked for them.

    Let's do some math: Sport Auto did 7:28 in the regular Huracan with Trofeo R tires. Huge ABS issues, which probably costs the Huracan 2-3 seconds time (according to last Sport Auto Huracan Performance test-drive, the ABS issues are gone). So if the ABS is OK now, we can substract 3 seconds from the 7:28 time, equaling 7:25. Now take the new Trofeo R tires. If they are really that good, I think we can safely subtract another 3 seconds off the time. 7:22.

    Now let's take into consideration the 45 kg less weight, the 30 hp more and the slightly faster shifting times of the newly programmed shifting system. Another 2 seconds? You bet. 7:20.

    According from what I learned about the active aero, this is a new revolutionary system (apparently all car experts seem to agree after Lamborghini published the details). 5 seconds faster? If the car really produced the downforce it needs in curves and the drag it needs in certain high speed sections, I think that 5 seconds are very conservative. 7:15.

    7:15 in the Sport Auto Supertest, maybe even something close to 7:13 or 7:10 (if I am optimistic about the improved chassis and steering setups).

    The 918 did 7:13 in the Sport Auto Supertest.

    So yes, I think it is possible that the Huracan Performante did 6:52 in the hands of a Lamborghini test-driver and probably a perfect setup for the Nordschleife but I also think that even if Sport Auto reviews the Huracan Performance at  anything below 7:15 in autumn, the Huracan Performance will be a spectacular car.

    If you think I took too many seconds off...the Nordschleife is over 20 km long. This is not your usual race track. I was conservative with my assumptions.

    Like I said before: We should stop speculating until we see the first reviews. Same goes to the AMG GT-R we were talking about. I am willing to give every car manufacturer the benefit of doubt.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

     


    Re: Huracán Performante in "6.52 something" at the Ring?

    SciFrog:

    Porsche and Lambo belongs to the same group, why would VW allow Lambo to cheat and not Porsche?

    Actually, Porsche is already more involved in VW Group sportscar development than many here realize. Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Huracán Performante in "6.52 something" at the Ring?

    Race Logic posted their timing of it. Supposedly it was the CEO who posted it.

    Real or Fake? There is some controversy brewing over the recent video posted by Lamborghini showing a 2017 Huracan Performante clocking a 6m52s lap of the ring. This piqued our interest, so here is our (somewhat geeky) analysis: 

    The distance between the gantry and bridge is 1727m which was calculated in Circuit Tools using some customer VBOX data. This was then confirmed using the measuring tool in Google Earth. We then integrated the speed from the on-screen telemetry data on the Lambo every second using the built-in video time-stamps to obtain distance travelled. This data was obtained by stepping through the video in a video editor and entering the displayed speed every second into Excel. When integrated, the telemetry data made it 1728m from gantry to bridge, so the reported speeds and times between these two points on the circuits matched the real world distance precisely. This means that the speeds on the videos seem entirely realistic. 

    We then analysed the engine sound (using an FFT analysis) from the Huracan at top speed on the same straight, which showed a maximum of just under 7750 rpm on the rev counter. This analysis showed a strong peak at 640Hz which equates to 7680rpm for a V10. Therefore our opinion, based on both pieces of evidence, is that the video has not been speeded up. Next time, it would be a lot easier if they used a VBOX Video 

     


    Re: Huracán Performante in "6.52 something" at the Ring?

    I am pretty sure Lamborghini wouldn't speed up a video to fake the time, this would be easily detectable.

    I am also pretty sure that the time and video they posted is real but the interesting question remains: Will a normal production car achieve the same or similar time? The Sport Auto review will reveal it. If the car does better than the 918 time (7:13), I think we are going to have our answer. If not, well...we can still rip the Huracan Performante performance into pieces. indecision


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Huracán Performante in "6.52 something" at the Ring?

    To be fair I think many manufacturers use professional drivers to set their 'ring times. Not formula 1 celebrities, but they are people whose profession is to drive car - fast. And if the tire is being codeveloped in parallel with the car, this is ok too as long as its on the car at delivery and the customer can order more of them from day 1. If the remainder comes from the tech then I say it's legit. I won't be surprised though if 10 or 15 seconds of the improvement aren't consistently reproducible; 6:52 is a big step forward.


    Re: Huracán Performante in "6.52 something" at the Ring?

    RC:
    Carlos from Spain:

    There is no chance the 640HP STOCK Performante that will be sold to the customers is going to do a 6:52 in the Ring,  not even close, if using a prototype engine, a team of engineers tweeking suspensions and setup specifically for the Ring, using especifically deloped R compound tires for the Ring lap time, and so on is not cheating then... the video discrepancies is just the icon on the cake. They got their headlines in the press though, most people won't even realice the lap time is unrealistic, as they don't get past the headlines, so its worked for them.

    Let's do some math: Sport Auto did 7:28 in the regular Huracan with Trofeo R tires. Huge ABS issues, which probably costs the Huracan 2-3 seconds time (according to last Sport Auto Huracan Performance test-drive, the ABS issues are gone). So if the ABS is OK now, we can substract 3 seconds from the 7:28 time, equaling 7:25. Now take the new Trofeo R tires. If they are really that good, I think we can safely subtract another 3 seconds off the time. 7:22.

    Now let's take into consideration the 45 kg less weight, the 30 hp more and the slightly faster shifting times of the newly programmed shifting system. Another 2 seconds? You bet. 7:20.

    According from what I learned about the active aero, this is a new revolutionary system (apparently all car experts seem to agree after Lamborghini published the details). 5 seconds faster? If the car really produced the downforce it needs in curves and the drag it needs in certain high speed sections, I think that 5 seconds are very conservative. 7:15.

    7:15 in the Sport Auto Supertest, maybe even something close to 7:13 or 7:10 (if I am optimistic about the improved chassis and steering setups).

    The 918 did 7:13 in the Sport Auto Supertest.

    So yes, I think it is possible that the Huracan Performante did 6:52 in the hands of a Lamborghini test-driver and probably a perfect setup for the Nordschleife but I also think that even if Sport Auto reviews the Huracan Performance at  anything below 7:15 in autumn, the Huracan Performance will be a spectacular car.

    If you think I took too many seconds off...the Nordschleife is over 20 km long. This is not your usual race track. I was conservative with my assumptions.

    Like I said before: We should stop speculating until we see the first reviews. Same goes to the AMG GT-R we were talking about. I am willing to give every car manufacturer the benefit of doubt.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

     

    I have little doubt that the Performante used in the fast lap achieved that lap, I don't think they would be stupid enough to cheat with the video, if anything its something minor, but the reality is that that Performante used has nothing to do with the one customers will drive of the dealership lot, the tires wont be trofeos developed for the ring but rather corsas, the engine will be a production one, the chasis/suspension setup won't be the same, etc... what people are crying foul about is that they have strayed too much from the the stock production car in a marketing exercise to make the headlines with a nurburgring lap time and consequent fake exposure for their car. The reason people don't like t is that it going to far perverting the real use of the Nurburgring lap times. Mercedes is in the same boat with the GTR, Nissan started it.

    As to the 918 lap time, you can't really compare it now can you, don't know what lap time the Performante will achieve in the supertest today but I have absolutely no doubt that if they test a 918 on the same surface (don't know if the supertest 918 lap time the ring was before it was re-paved) with same tires, and same conditions will beat the Performante by a significant margin, there is no comparison. No amount of marketing make-up can make the Performante a supercar like the 918, McLaren P1, etc its in another class lets be realistic.

    My guess on the Performante Supertest lap time? 7:20 if they use it stock PZero Corsa tires the production car comes with in reality and the car supplied is not a ringer.


    --

     

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

     


    Re: Huracán Performante in "6.52 something" at the Ring?

    mcdelaug:

    To be fair I think many manufacturers use professional drivers to set their 'ring times. Not formula 1 celebrities, but they are people whose profession is to drive car - fast. And if the tire is being codeveloped in parallel with the car, this is ok too as long as its on the car at delivery and the customer can order more of them from day 1. If the remainder comes from the tech then I say it's legit. I won't be surprised though if 10 or 15 seconds of the improvement aren't consistently reproducible; 6:52 is a big step forward.

    Actually, it is much "worse": They use their own test drivers who did that particular track in that particular car dozens of times and know the car better than anyone out there. This is why I never trust manufacturer claims.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Huracán Performante in "6.52 something" at the Ring?

    Carlos from Spain:
    I have little doubt that the Performante used in the fast lap achieved that lap, I don't think they would be stupid enough to cheat with the video, if anything its something minor, but the reality is that that Performante used has nothing to do with the one customers will drive of the dealership lot, the tires wont be trofeos developed for the ring but rather corsas, the engine will be a production one, the chasis/suspension setup won't be the same, etc... what people are crying foul about is that they have strayed too much from the the stock production car in a marketing exercise to make the headlines with a nurburgring lap time and consequent fake exposure for their car. The reason people don't like t is that it going to far perverting the real use of the Nurburgring lap times. Mercedes is in the same boat with the GTR, Nissan started it.

    As to the 918 lap time, you can't really compare it now can you, don't know what lap time the Performante will achieve in the supertest today but I have absolutely no doubt that if they test a 918 on the same surface (don't know if the supertest 918 lap time the ring was before it was re-paved) with same tires, and same conditions will beat the Performante by a significant margin, there is no comparison. No amount of marketing make-up can make the Performante a supercar like the 918, McLaren P1, etc its in another class lets be realistic.

    My guess on the Performante Supertest lap time? 7:20 if they use it stock PZero Corsa tires the production car comes with in reality and the car supplied is not a ringer.


    --

     

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

     

    The didn't repave the whole Norschleife, just a few sections. Smiley 1-2 seconds difference here...at best.

    If the Performante does 7:20, I would be hugely disappointed. Like I said, the Huracan did 7:28 and the new Performante not only has the active aero but also new Trofeo R tires, more power, less weight, an improved chassis setup and slightly faster shifting times. 7:20 would be a good time but still...disappointing. I rather think that the Performante will do the Norschleife under 7:15. If it does it under 7:10, I will bow before Lamborghini. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Huracán Performante in "6.52 something" at the Ring?

    7:15 is doable IMO if they use the Trofeos in the Supertest, but they should use the Corsas which is the tire the production Performante comes with from factory though.


    --

     

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

     


    Re: Huracán Performante in "6.52 something" at the Ring?

    Performante will use latest Trofeo R tires for the Supertest and CG will make the fastest Ring time  by Sport Auto.

    Am I a wizard? No. But,  I stick with my prediction.


    Re: Huracán Performante in "6.52 something" at the Ring?

    when a 12C does 7:28 with crappy 2012 P Zeros then a Huracan with more HP, more Downforce/Aero and better Tyres can do 7:10 - 7:15 min
    They used Trofeo R developement tyres (same as on Aventador SV timed run) for the 6:52 run and these tyres differentate also from the "normal" Trofeo R. The car will get the new Pirelli P Zero Corsa as default tyre option. These are no Trofeos Performance wise but will get close to Cup2 Peformance levels. When you watch the direct comparisation between 918 Spyder lap and Huracan lap you see the better cornering speeds and this is imho only the result of the tyres.

    PS: i repeat myself but im super happy with my Trofeo R "MC". Took the car on a spirited drive this saturday and also with temperatures not far above 10 deg they behaved very well.

     


    Re: Huracán Performante in "6.52 something" at the Ring?

    Huracan will do low 7 min, but I still think it's going to be a much different story when it gets tested on far different tracks.



    Re: Huracán Performante in "6.52 something" at the Ring?

    Looks great kiss

    +30hp
    +40Nm
    -40kg
    0-100km/h: 2.9s
    0-200km/h: 8.9s

     

     

     


    Re: Huracán Performante in "6.52 something" at the Ring?

    RC:

    I am pretty sure Lamborghini wouldn't speed up a video to fake the time, this would be easily detectable.

    I am also pretty sure that the time and video they posted is real but the interesting question remains: Will a normal production car achieve the same or similar time? The Sport Auto review will reveal it. If the car does better than the 918 time (7:13), I think we are going to have our answer. If not, well...we can still rip the Huracan Performante performance into pieces. indecision

     

    Only if the interior matches Smiley


    Re: Huracán Performante in "6.52 something" at the Ring?

    absolutely love it! Smiley


    Re: Huracán Performante in "6.52 something" at the Ring?

    What a great design! Like! kiss


    --

    We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: Huracán Performante in "6.52 something" at the Ring?

    Any color , any combination  will do for me . Love it 👍


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 


    Re: Huracán Performante in "6.52 something" at the Ring?

    Press Release

    The first customers will take delivery of the new Lamborghini Huracán Performante in Summer 2017 at suggested retail prices as follows:

    Europe:  EUR 195,040.00 (suggested retail price taxes excluded)

    UK:  GBP 173,271.00 (suggested retail price taxes excluded)

    USA:  USD 274,390.00 (suggested retail price taxes/GST excluded)


    Re: Huracán Performante in "6.52 something" at the Ring?

    Price is (almost) a bargain, considering...

    If the track performance is that good, this car will be an amazing offer and an homage to the fantastic V10 engine.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Huracán Performante in "6.52 something" at the Ring?

    Rossi:

    What a great design! Like! kiss

    Smiley I'm not a huge fan of that gigantic rear wing, I wish they would have used a deployable wing or at least one which can be raised higher when needed but I guess they wanted to save as much weight as possible, so... Smiley

    Great offer for an interesting price... Smiley I expected 250k but instead the price is 232k EUR in Germany (incl. 19% VAT).

    "Only" 30k EUR more than the regular Huracan, what an offer. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Huracán Performante in "6.52 something" at the Ring?

    For the downforce they are claiming, that rear wing isn't too big, I guess advantage of underbody aero etc.


     
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