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    Re: Raikkonen is Champion!! FINALLY!

    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    John H, I dont think there is any rat anywhere to smell.
    3 stops was probably the only viable option, since Hamilton was relatively light at the start, and he wouldnt be able to make it home on a full tank with (what was it?) 50 laps to go.
    Then better to be light and fast.

    He lost the race when he tried regaining the place from Alonso. That was a huge error of judgement.

    As for Ecclestone's comments, I believe that is his opinion - and not necessarily a sign of foul play. Hamilton didnt get DQ'd by FIA or officials.
    He tanked the GP all by himself.



    I hear what you say Doc, but in fact, Alonso pitted before Hamilton so must have been lighter. The other bit I don't get is why they put LH out on soft tyres for a short stint, then bring him in again so soon? He'd just made an amazing pass and the 'softs' were hardly degraded when he re-pitted.

    It's all a bit strange when you add the tyre debacle in China to the equation don't you think?

    Re: Raikkonen is Champion!! FINALLY!

    During the US broadcast, the commentators spoke about the anvil that is going to fall from the sky and hit Kimi's car (if it weren't for bad luck - Kimi wouldn't have any luck at all). It always seems to happen to him. I can't believe this.
    I've liked Kimi since Peter Sauber took a chance on a young Finn with only 23 races under his belt. I liked Kimi, but HATED Ron Dennis, so I was elated when he went to Ferrari. I really hope everything works out for him.
    If it does: CONGRATULATIONS KIMI!!!

    Re: Raikkonen is Champion!! FINALLY!

    Quote:
    John H said:
    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    John H, I dont think there is any rat anywhere to smell.
    3 stops was probably the only viable option, since Hamilton was relatively light at the start, and he wouldnt be able to make it home on a full tank with (what was it?) 50 laps to go.
    Then better to be light and fast.

    He lost the race when he tried regaining the place from Alonso. That was a huge error of judgement.

    As for Ecclestone's comments, I believe that is his opinion - and not necessarily a sign of foul play. Hamilton didnt get DQ'd by FIA or officials.
    He tanked the GP all by himself.



    I hear what you say Doc, but in fact, Alonso pitted before Hamilton so must have been lighter. The other bit I don't get is why they put LH out on soft tyres for a short stint, then bring him in again so soon? He'd just made an amazing pass and the 'softs' were hardly degraded when he re-pitted.

    It's all a bit strange when you add the tyre debacle in China to the equation don't you think?



    I agree with you. I does sound strange. I think the simple answer is that McL dont have a good enough team leader and race strategy.
    The China incident was a kindergarten mistake - it simply should not happen in a professional F1 team.
    Whatever or whoever is behind the Brazil strategy, it didnt work too well.

    I agree with Hamilton, that this WAS a team effort. Trouble is, it was the combination of youthful inexperience/lack of cool and a teamleader with not enough vision and command to carry home a pretty nobrain task.

    I cant see how this in anyway can be anything but lack of professionalism when it counted the most.
    And I believe McL will have to take a long hard look at Ron Dennis for 2008.

    Re: Raikkonen is Champion!! FINALLY!

    Quote:
    John H said:
    However, I still query Bernie Eccleston's comment to Martin Brundle before the race that for Hamilton to win, in his rookie year, would be bad for F1.

    I still query Brundle's comment that it looked like Hamilton's car had been "turned off and then back on again" just when he was making up the ground he'd lost

    And I still query why Hamilton was the only driver to stop three times. Why didn't they fuel him to the end on his second stop.





    I agree with all the above John and yes that chat that Eccleston had with Brundle was sure a strange tits up one ,, it made no sense at all.. Also , bad for F1 if Lewis won ,, why ?? ...

    Re: Raikkonen is Champion!! FINALLY!

    Absolutely incredible result IMO!!! Kimi waited a long time for this and paid his dues. Congrats Kimi & Ferrari.

    Given his 7 wins, he deserves the Championship, BUT, how did McLaren self-destruct like this? With both its drivers at the top of the standings with two races to go, they blew both races - this will hurt for a long, long, long time.

    As for others saying that this will be good for Hamilton in the long run - rubbish! IMO, he lost mostly due to his team's bad judgement and because of the huge pressure he must have been feeling as a rookie. Just an incredible disaster. He did, however, demonstrate impressive skills for a rookie during the year.

    Yes, the Italian media spoke of the FIA not allowing McLaren to win the driver's title due to the Spy scandal, but IMO Kimi won fair and square.

    How did Kimi finish over 50 seconds ahead of Alonso, when their cars seemed evenly matched? Well done Ferrari.

    Isn't it amusing how cordial Alonso has been lately? He must be worried about landing a suitable ride for next year? Team owners/managers must be slightly apprehensive about hiring him after what happened this year at McLaren. IMO, while he is certainly a top tier driver, he isn't any better than Kimi, Hamilton, Massa (and perhaps a few others). He definitely needs to be the designated #1 driver for a team and finally, his ethical behaviour has been tarnished.

    This season could not have been scripted any better.

    Re: Raikkonen is Champion!! FINALLY!

    Quote:
    ADias said:
    Kimi Won! and what a deserved victory that was. Without the prima donna antics of most other drivers, the cool, controlled, professional and very talented driver, finally gets his very deserved prize!

    Congratulations Kimi! Well done!



    +1. Yea!!!

    Re: Raikkonen is Champion!! FINALLY!

    http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63598

    copy/paste from Autosport

    Hamilton doesn't want a title won in appeal

    By Alan Baldwin Monday, October 22nd 2007, 18:49 GMT

    McLaren's Lewis Hamilton said on Monday he wanted to win the Formula One title on the racetrack, not weeks later on appeal.

    "It would be wrong," said the 22-year-old Briton, still suffering the effects of a heavy night out after letting the title slip from his grasp by one point in Sunday's season-ending race in Brazil.

    "For me, I want to win it on the track," he told reporters in his hotel room. "You want to do it in style, you want to win the race, you want to win battling it out for the lead or something in the race.

    "Being promoted after some people have been thrown out is not the way I want to do it."

    The rookie lost out to Ferrari's Kimi Raikkonen after finishing seventh on a nightmare afternoon at Interlagos.

    Raikkonen won the race but the Finn's first title was overshadowed by a stewards' enquiry into the three cars that finished ahead of Hamilton.

    McLaren have said they intend to appeal against the stewards' subsequent decision not to penalise Williams' Nico Rosberg and BMW Sauber's Nick Heidfeld and Robert Kubica for fuel temperature irregularities.

    The aim would be to lift Hamilton above them in the classification, securing the points he needs to become champion instead.

    The Briton, winner of four races in a sensational debut season, said he would feel uncomfortable with that.

    "It would feel weird after Kimi did such a fantastic job in the last two races," he said.

    "He won yesterday and to have it taken away is a bit cruel and probably not good for the sport."

    Hamilton, who had led teammate and double world champion Fernando Alonso by four points and Raikkonen by seven before Interlagos, paid tribute to his team and supporters.

    "Last night was good and (team boss) Ron (Dennis) did a speech and we had a great evening and just sort of rounded up the whole year," he said.

    "It has been a phenomenal year and the support from the team makes it just a real pleasure for me to be a part of the team.

    "I'm extremely proud of them and extremely proud of my family and everyone that's just supported me to get me where I am today.

    "Later on in the evening yesterday I felt it (the defeat) more for sure, it's tough on everyone but there's always another year," said Hamilton.

    "I'm only 22, there's going to be plenty more opportunities for me to win the world championship and I have no doubt that we can do that in the future."

    _____________________________________

    Alonso about that:

    "If Lewis would win the title like that I would get embarrassed about this sport," Alonso said on Spanish radio. "I don't know how Hamilton feels about this but I expect he would feel like he deserved this. I'm sure he'd be really happy."


    Re: Raikkonen is Champion!! FINALLY!

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    I am thinking one thing-way the hell Hamilton did not drive normally in fourth or fifth place and won the Title?

    As you all know I am Kimi's fan(and previously my fav was Mika) but, Hamilton clearly has a problem in his head. After that bad start he just could drive normally back there and won the Title but, NOOO-he needed to show Alonso who is the Boss! We all know the end result...




    Maybe the answer is here:

    "I finished second in the world championship. I beat my team-mate under extremely difficult circumstances. I beat the two-time world champion. That was the goal."

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7055587.stm

    So basically Dennis and Hamilton have been racing Alonso instead of Kimi and that's why they have lost the Championship.

    Re: Raikkonen is Champion!! FINALLY!

    Quote:
    gangajas said:
    So basically Dennis and Hamilton have been racing Alonso instead of Kimi and that's why they have lost the Championship.



    You know what? That's probably a pretty accurate observation!

    Re: Raikkonen is Champion!! FINALLY!

    Truth is that everyone would feel McLaren won the championship in a court room, not on the track.
    Hamilton would have a VERY hard time prancing around as "the champ", when everyone knows he isnt.
    F1 fans would lose even more respect for FIA, and nothing good would come of it.
    If they had any class, they would leave it alone.
    They fukced it up, and no appeal is gonna cover that.

    Re: Raikkonen is Champion!! FINALLY!

    Quote:
    throt said:
    Quote:
    John H said:
    However, I still query Bernie Eccleston's comment to Martin Brundle before the race that for Hamilton to win, in his rookie year, would be bad for F1.

    I still query Brundle's comment that it looked like Hamilton's car had been "turned off and then back on again" just when he was making up the ground he'd lost

    And I still query why Hamilton was the only driver to stop three times. Why didn't they fuel him to the end on his second stop.





    I agree with all the above John and yes that chat that Eccleston had with Brundle was sure a strange tits up one ,, it made no sense at all.. Also , bad for F1 if Lewis won ,, why ?? ...



    This week Bernie said that, ten days ago he said that it would be good if LH were jewish or muslim, two weeks ago he said that Kimi and Alonso didn't promote the sport enough and that LH should be the champion, he's senile.

    But please, don't try to find lame excuses, LH screwed up himself.

    Re: Raikkonen is Champion!! FINALLY!

    Now some people on Autosport forums suggest that LH hitted the button that switches the pitlane speed limiter on and off and that is why the car suddenly slowed down. Look at the video before the FOM takes it down:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqHZ_xaB4Es

    McLaren's steering wheel, button n*2:

    http://www.mclaren.com/features/technical/interactive_steering_wheel.php

    Re: Raikkonen is Champion!! FINALLY!

    Actually looks like he fumbles with the pitlane limiter.
    Hard to be sure. Would be quite a blunder if it were true.

    Re: Raikkonen is Champion!! FINALLY!

    My theory on Hamilton stopping 3 times, and the only almost sensible reason I can think of, is that realistically he only needed to cruise to he flag.

    Teams have been worried about the durability of the super-softs and if was a slight worry about rain. Considering these two factors, plus the fact that Fernando wasn't looking like he'd pass the Ferraris, it would be best to go for a 3-stopper since this gives them more option on tyres etc.

    Also, it is probably felt that once he fell down to 18th, his is significantly faster than the cars in front of him that it would be more beneficial to time his stops so that he has as much empty road in front of him as possible. There's no sense keeping to a more efficient strategy while being stuck behind (or worse getting hit by) a Spyker or something.

    But yes, it looked like he did hit the limiter. It wouldn't surprise me, he was looking pretty shaken after that little stumble with Alonso.

    Basically, he saved all his f*ck ups till the final race. Still, a most remarkable season and hats off to the guy. A future Champion for sure.

    Re: Raikkonen is Champion!! FINALLY!

    Quote:
    gangajas said:
    Now some people on Autosport forums suggest that LH hitted the button that switches the pitlane speed limiter on and off and that is why the car suddenly slowed down. Look at the video before the FOM takes it down:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqHZ_xaB4Es

    McLaren's steering wheel, button n*2:

    http://www.mclaren.com/features/technical/interactive_steering_wheel.php




    THis is true!!!!oh...pitlane button...was him so under pressure...?

    Re: Raikkonen is Champion!! FINALLY!

    Quote:
    andrea said:
    Quote:
    gangajas said:
    Now some people on Autosport forums suggest that LH hitted the button that switches the pitlane speed limiter on and off and that is why the car suddenly slowed down. Look at the video before the FOM takes it down:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqHZ_xaB4Es

    McLaren's steering wheel, button n*2:

    http://www.mclaren.com/features/technical/interactive_steering_wheel.php




    THis is true!!!!oh...pitlane button...was him so under pressure...?



    Oh yes! He apparently promissed Ron Dennis that he will be in front of the Alonso from the start till finish line...

    Re: Raikkonen is Champion!! FINALLY!

    Quote:
    andrea said:
    Quote:
    gangajas said:
    Now some people on Autosport forums suggest that LH hitted the button that switches the pitlane speed limiter on and off and that is why the car suddenly slowed down. Look at the video before the FOM takes it down:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqHZ_xaB4Es

    McLaren's steering wheel, button n*2:

    http://www.mclaren.com/features/technical/interactive_steering_wheel.php




    THis is true!!!!oh...pitlane button...was him so under pressure...?



    There is some other replay where you can hear engine sound.. and gearbox was defenetly in "Neutral," completly different sound compared to sound while driving in pits.

    Re: Raikkonen is Champion!! FINALLY!

    Quote:
    andrea said:
    Quote:
    gangajas said:
    Now some people on Autosport forums suggest that LH hitted the button that switches the pitlane speed limiter on and off and that is why the car suddenly slowed down. Look at the video before the FOM takes it down:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqHZ_xaB4Es

    McLaren's steering wheel, button n*2:

    http://www.mclaren.com/features/technical/interactive_steering_wheel.php




    THis is true!!!!oh...pitlane button...was him so under pressure...?



    Looks like he pressed wrong button:

    "My finger slipped on the steering wheel and I accidentally pressed the button used for the starting sequence. The car went into neutral and I had to reinitialize the system, that is, reload the gearbox management program."

    Everyone makes mistakes, but not everyone would admit it. Wasnt Schumacher accidentally once turned off the engine when he drove on straight line, I think it was when he drove for Bennetton Ford / Renault ?

    Re: Raikkonen is Champion!! FINALLY!

    Quote:
    Shakal said:
    Quote:
    andrea said:
    Quote:
    gangajas said:
    Now some people on Autosport forums suggest that LH hitted the button that switches the pitlane speed limiter on and off and that is why the car suddenly slowed down. Look at the video before the FOM takes it down:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqHZ_xaB4Es

    McLaren's steering wheel, button n*2:

    http://www.mclaren.com/features/technical/interactive_steering_wheel.php




    THis is true!!!!oh...pitlane button...was him so under pressure...?



    Looks like he pressed wrong button:

    "My finger slipped on the steering wheel and I accidentally pressed the button used for the starting sequence. The car went into neutral and I had to reinitialize the system, that is, reload the gearbox management program."

    Everyone makes mistakes, but not everyone would admit it. Wasnt Schumacher accidentally once turned off the engine when he drove on straight line, I think it was when he drove for Bennetton Ford / Renault ?



    I wonder if Alonso would ever admit it if he had made a similar mistake??

    Somehow I doubt it..

    Re: Raikkonen is Champion!! FINALLY!

    Quote:
    Shakal said:
    Quote:
    andrea said:
    Quote:
    gangajas said:
    Now some people on Autosport forums suggest that LH hitted the button that switches the pitlane speed limiter on and off and that is why the car suddenly slowed down. Look at the video before the FOM takes it down:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqHZ_xaB4Es

    McLaren's steering wheel, button n*2:

    http://www.mclaren.com/features/technical/interactive_steering_wheel.php




    THis is true!!!!oh...pitlane button...was him so under pressure...?



    Looks like he pressed wrong button:

    "My finger slipped on the steering wheel and I accidentally pressed the button used for the starting sequence. The car went into neutral and I had to reinitialize the system, that is, reload the gearbox management program."

    Everyone makes mistakes, but not everyone would admit it. Wasnt Schumacher accidentally once turned off the engine when he drove on straight line, I think it was when he drove for Bennetton Ford / Renault ?



    what? starting procedure mistake? this is better than pitlane

    Re: Raikkonen is Champion!! FINALLY!

    Lewis will be champion one day. I believe he learned a lot from his first season. What worries me is that McLaren as a team may end up being less competitional next year because of what happened in 2007. It's interesting to watch Lewis drving a slower car. From what I remember only MS both at Benetton and at Ferrari (in the begining) was constantly having better results than expected from his car.

    Re: Raikkonen is Champion!! FINALLY!

    I wonder if somebody could clarify the engine regulations? As I understand it engines will be unchanged for the 2008 season. Also traction control is now banned and all teams will use a standard ECU, developed by McLaren! I actually think that if engines are unchanged then everything will come down to aero performance much more next year.

    It also makes it more difficult for the other teams to reach the Ferrari/McLaren level but with no TC then driver skill will come back into the equation much more too.

    Re: Raikkonen is Champion!! FINALLY!

    Quote:
    cgt said:
    I wonder if somebody could clarify the engine regulations? As I understand it engines will be unchanged for the 2008 season. Also traction control is now banned and all teams will use a standard ECU, developed by McLaren! I actually think that if engines are unchanged then everything will come down to aero performance much more next year.

    It also makes it more difficult for the other teams to reach the Ferrari/McLaren level but with no TC then driver skill will come back into the equation much more too.



    I think driving without TC is more similar to driving with TC on wet track.. because on wet track driver can easily spin rear wheels despite TC. And this year Hamilton was the best on wet track.

    Re: Raikkonen is Champion!! FINALLY!

    very interesting comments form Mr. Montezemolo!!!

    In the days after the 2007 championship climax, Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo has reserved some high praise for Fernando Alonso.

    Kimi Raikkonen stole the crown from McLaren's championship leader Lewis Hamilton and reigning title winner Alonso in Brazil on Sunday.

    And while Montezemolo had little admiration for Alonso's McLaren stable-mates, he heralded the 26-year-old as an "extraordinary driver."

    "Alonso is a class act in every respect. I very much appreciate his sportsmanship," Montezemolo is quoted by the news agency EFE as saying on Tuesday.

    He added: "Despite losing the title by a single point and perhaps only due to the mismanagement of his team, he arrived at the press conference and immediately congratulated Raikkonen. He showed that is he also a champion off the track," Montezemolo said.

    Alonso has been speculatively linked with a switch from McLaren, where he is openly uncomfortable, to other teams including Ferrari.

    By contrast, Montezemolo characterised Hamilton's driving errors at Interlagos as borne out of "youth and nerves."

    "Had he stayed behind the Spanish driver, he was champion," the Ferrari president said, referring to Hamilton's slide off the road whilst attacking Alonso on the first lap.

    "It was recklessness, perhaps because of nerves.
    In any case his achievements must be recognised as extraordinary, because of his youth and his inexperience. So he deserves respect and congratulations. But it is true that he has not yet faced any setbacks."

    Montezemolo also said he was not overly anxious about McLaren's 'cool fuel' protest, which could potentially see the title handed back to Hamilton.

    "In Formula One, anything can happen, but as we have seen in the past in these circumstances, you remove the points of the team, not the drivers," the Italian remarked.

    It must be noted however that if the FIA's Court of Appeal decides to expel the BMW Sauber and Williams cars from the Brazilian GP race results, no points would be allocated to either the team nor the drivers.

    Lewis Hamilton would therefore move from seventh to fourth position in the final standings and gain enough points to clinch the Championship.


    from http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/071023120859.shtml

    Re: Raikkonen is Champion!! FINALLY!

    Ron Dennis=McLoser

    Re: Raikkonen is Champion!! FINALLY!

    If Alonso goes to Ferrari and cannot beat Kimi (which he wont, Kimi is faster) exactly the same thing will happen as happened this year at McLaren. Ferrari know this.

    Luca is a consumate politician. Undoubtedly he is saying these things to have digs at Ron Dennis, nothing else.

    In the highly unlikely event that Lewis Hamilton became available to Ferrari, watch how quick they change their tune. Already Todt and Michael Schumacher have commented (more than once) about how much they like Hamilton.

    I love Ferrari, politics and all..

    Re: Raikkonen is Champion!! FINALLY!

    Quote:
    cgt said:
    If Alonso goes to Ferrari and cannot beat Kimi (which he wont, Kimi is faster) exactly the same thing will happen as happened this year at McLaren. Ferrari know this.

    Luca is a consumate politician. Undoubtedly he is saying these things to have digs at Ron Dennis, nothing else.

    In the highly unlikely event that Lewis Hamilton became available to Ferrari, watch how quick they change their tune. Already Todt and Michael Schumacher have commented (more than once) about how much they like Hamilton.

    I love Ferrari, politics and all..



    I believe Todt said that Alonso WILL NOT drive for Ferrari as long as he is in charge!

    Didn't Alonso make negative comments about Ferrari last year? Definitely wouldn't want to see him at Ferrari. He had his chance and blew them off - even though Luca still thinks highly of him.

    As for Hamilton - what's there NOT to like?? He demonstrated to be extremely fast. His inexperience/pressure finally caught up to him at the end. He can only get better - but I can't see him driving for anyone else but McLaren in the near future.

    Re: Raikkonen is Champion!! FINALLY!

    Precisely! McLaren have Hamilton locked up tighter than a virgin nun wearing a chastity belt..understandably so..

    I saw Jean Todt in Frankfurt and spoke to him very briefly..trust me he likes Ham, but no one expects him to be available to Ferrari for many many years..

    Ferrari have what I consider to almost be the perfect driver pairing at the moment. The only way I could see the situation changing is if Kimi loses interest now he has won the WDC..stranger things have happened..

    I also think Massa did not show his full potential this year, he took more poles than Raikonnen and would have been right in the WDC but for reliability issues.

    I dont think his contract extension is any kind of smokescreen. He will be with Ferrari for the next four years. Luca and Todt have both recently commented on Massa in a very positive way, hence my belief that Luca's remarks are simply to destabilise McLaren and Ron Dennis.

    Re: Raikkonen is Champion!! FINALLY!

    Quote:
    mp said:
    I believe Todt said that Alonso WILL NOT drive for Ferrari as long as he is in charge!



    Do you know the reason?

    Re: Raikkonen is Champion!! FINALLY!

    As far as I know, Hamilton was given a one year contract for the 2007 season and paid relatively very little for it. The terms of whatever contract he has are subject for renewal for the 2008 season.

    Next year will be interesting for all of the teams.

    The required for 08 manual gearboxes should remove a lot of
    the transmission issues all of the teams have experienced
    and require more skill of the drivers.

     
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