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    Re: Corvette C8

    RC:

    The C8 won't be interesting for Europe since it really seems that GM won't bring the (cheaper) n/a version to Europe due to emissions regulations and adaptations.

    GM apparently plans to offer the turbo charged C8 in Europe only, incl. the hybrid version. These cars will cost way over 100k EUR, so take a guess how they will sell in Europe. angry I actually heard that the cheapest version in Europe is supposed to start at around 120k EUR.

    The C8 with n/a V8 and for 80k with a few options would have been a home-run in Europe.

    A turbo charged C8 for over 100k? Not so much.

    But which one would you choose ?

    A 120k C8 Turbo or the 160k+ 992 Carrera S and a hair dryer noise Smiley


    Re: Corvette C8

    BiTurbo:
    RC:

    The C8 won't be interesting for Europe since it really seems that GM won't bring the (cheaper) n/a version to Europe due to emissions regulations and adaptations.

    GM apparently plans to offer the turbo charged C8 in Europe only, incl. the hybrid version. These cars will cost way over 100k EUR, so take a guess how they will sell in Europe. angry I actually heard that the cheapest version in Europe is supposed to start at around 120k EUR.

    The C8 with n/a V8 and for 80k with a few options would have been a home-run in Europe.

    A turbo charged C8 for over 100k? Not so much.

    But which one would you choose ?

    A 120k C8 Turbo or the 160k+ 992 Carrera S and a hair dryer noise Smiley

    I need to wait for the C8 Turbo to see how it drives and sounds. I am open minded...but keep in mind that I could use the 992 Carrera S as a business car, incl. tax deduction. Corvette? Basically impossible. This is what GM seems to forget, especially in Germany. Also...resale value. A C8 will be worth half once you register it. Smiley A Porsche 992 would probably loose 30% "only".


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     


    Re: Corvette C8

    You can't deduct expenses on the Corvette  but can on a Porsche? Why? Because the C8 is an American car?


    --

    Assume most people are stupid and hope they surprise you.


    Re: Corvette C8

    Just read that one of the reasons why the C8 is not offered in manual is because of customer demand. In 2014 50% of the Corvettes ordered were manual. Today its down to 20%.There interest in manual just isn't there.


    --

    Assume most people are stupid and hope they surprise you.


    Re: Corvette C8

    nberry:

    You can't deduct expenses on the Corvette  but can on a Porsche? Why? Because the C8 is an American car?

    It is irrelevant if RC and others approve of the C8 Corvette as demand has outstripped supply just in North America.  As other variants become available, demand will remain high for the foreseeable future.  Even if the C8 lacks the ultimate fluency of, say, a Porsche Cayman GTS, the performance versus cost calculus still remain attractive for the Corvette.  This car will hamper already weak sales of European sports cars in the $100,000 and below price range.  The only vehicle that retains a unique selling proposition is the soon-to-end-production Audi TT RS because of its all-season usefulness in the Northern climates.  The BMW M4 may also fall into this category as the next generation is rumored to have all-wheel drive.  That's it.  Everything else appears overpriced in the North American market.  


    Re: Corvette C8

    No, at the prices RC mentioned, they are not selling any here in Europe for many reasons, trust me, other sportscar manufacturers here won't even notice it is out. Whatever ihe impact of the C8 will be, unfortunately it will be limited to US only...


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Corvette C8

    This car will sell in Europe provided that European countries don't handicap it. Also, the cultural issue of buying domestic could harm sales. Which is unfortunate because is better looking, will out perform and cost less than almost all the European sport cars.  


    --

    Assume most people are stupid and hope they surprise you.


    Re: Corvette C8

    You guys are not in touch with Europe at all, there is no buying domestic culture here, Corvette has a very bad image here, the new mid-engine placement will help getting some cred but there is still the build quality and reliability, then there is the image of American cars in general, then there's is the issue of very poor service infrastructure here, then the issue with the lack of the bread and butter version not being sold here, only more expensive versions, and the final nail in the coffin is the poorer bang for the buck value here due to marked up prices in Europe. Nobody will dump 120k on a vette here...


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Corvette C8

    Carlos from Spain:

    No, at the prices RC mentioned, they are not selling any here in Europe for many reasons, trust me, other sportscar manufacturers here won't even notice it is out. Whatever ihe impact of the C8 will be, unfortunately it will be limited to US only...

    As previously stated above, it is irrelevant if the Corvette will be sold in the EU or not as for the next year or so, tight supplies versus demand will mean the car remains exclusive to the U.S. market.  Also note that RC's pricing is speculative as General Motors has not released any information beyond what the expected base price in the States.


    Re: Corvette C8

    Corvette has a really bad reputation here in Europe. And for that, it's too expensive, since they're not 60k USD here. Many will gladly spend a bit more and get a Porsche or something else.  


    --

    2018 White 911 GT3

     


    Re: Corvette C8

    Gauss:

    Corvette has a really bad reputation here in Europe. And for that, it's too expensive, since they're not 60k USD here. Many will gladly spend a bit more and get a Porsche or something else.  


    --

    2018 White 911 GT3

     

    Again, this is moot.  There is more than enough demand for the new Corvette in the States without sales in the EU.  The corollary isn’t true for Porsche and other manufacturers in the EU, where exports are a significant portion of annual production.  


    Re: Corvette C8

    First, Corvette does offer a larger rear wing for the C8 that is big enough for a giant size Lamborghini sticker.

    Second,  a Z06 C8 with more hp than the next Turbo S will still be under 130k

    Thirdly, anyone who thinks that a Porsche is a discrete looking sports car is in lala land. Most people think it's a millionaires toy, was bought with drug money or from cheating on taxes or by dentists who overcharge patients.

    Fourth, the C8 will assure that combined PCA and Corvette track days will not happen again, why? Who wants to be passed on the straight by a Vette that makes a Porsche look as slow as a Flintstones car.

    Fifth. When the Brits start buying and raving about C8s, some of their cleverness just might waft across the channel and  effect German Porsche buyers, who live in a country that strangely buys a lot of Ford Mustangs.

     


    Re: Corvette C8

    CGX car nut:
    the-missile:

    Will still handle like a whale and brakes will last 10min before you kiss the wall...angry

    Must be the crappy Brembo brakes found on the Corvette that is the issue.  

    I thought he was talking about BMW M cars whose brakes usually last three laps!


    Re: Corvette C8

    JimFlat6:
    CGX car nut:
    the-missile:

    Will still handle like a whale and brakes will last 10min before you kiss the wall...angry

    Must be the crappy Brembo brakes found on the Corvette that is the issue.  

    I thought he was talking about BMW M cars whose brakes usually last three laps!

    Perhaps, but the driver gets plenty of warning before total brake failure on the BMW M cars when the brakes start with grinding sounds on the second lap, even before being applied.  


    Re: Corvette C8

    CGX car nut:
    JimFlat6:
    CGX car nut:
    the-missile:

    Will still handle like a whale and brakes will last 10min before you kiss the wall...angry

    Must be the crappy Brembo brakes found on the Corvette that is the issue.  

    I thought he was talking about BMW M cars whose brakes usually last three laps!

    Perhaps, but the driver gets plenty of warning before total brake failure on the BMW M cars when the brakes start with grinding sounds on the second lap, even before being applied.  

    BMW M Sport patented brake fade decades ago. That's why you can downshift without the clutch on the manual versions.

    You heard it here first. There will be C8s with manual transmissions. The C8 transaxle was designed to be factory alterable to a traditional style manual and GM has plans to execute on that.


    Re: Corvette C8

    A good thing for the C8 could be, because of Trump, the 10% import duties could be dropped in Europe making the car cheaper!


    Re: Corvette C8

    RC:

    I need to wait for the C8 Turbo to see how it drives and sounds. I am open minded...but keep in mind that I could use the 992 Carrera S as a business car, incl. tax deduction. Corvette? Basically impossible. This is what GM seems to forget, especially in Germany. Also...resale value. A C8 will be worth half once you register it. Smiley A Porsche 992 would probably loose 30% "only".

     

    30% is still a lot for a 450hp carry out engine from the previous generation and an extra gear with hardly a 2-3 years warranty and no service (differs from region to region) that's aiming for older drivers now Smiley

    With VW's involvement and their degraded quality choice, I can't imagine how much worse it will be when the original Turbo will be out  Smiley

    I'm not rooting for Chevy here nor have I ever owned a Corvette before, but from my past experience with their engines in one of my project cars, all I can say it's a lot easier to get a hold of OEM / Aftermarket parts domestically or shipped overseas for dirt cheap compared to Porsche that charges you hundreds and thousands on OEM plastic parts. Don't tell me the plastic produced by Porsche is unbreakable, because the whole package is now breakable at any moment Smiley

    Are they still charging extra for floor mats when ordering a new car ?  Smiley

    Someone at RL has gone for a test drive and wasn't pleased with the 992, keywords used were (turd, horrible, not impressive, idiot, cheap, mind-boggling price) so much for 160k+ and may god help anyone who's willing to spend a bit more because it's a Porsche Smiley


    Re: Corvette C8

    nberry:

    You can't deduct expenses on the Corvette  but can on a Porsche? Why? Because the C8 is an American car?

    No, because the 911 is an "accepted" (German IRS) business car. Same as most AMG cars or BMW M cars.

    It is how it is and you should know that I think I read somewhere that over 60% of modern 911 in Germany are registered on companies. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Corvette C8

    JimFlat6:

    Thirdly, anyone who thinks that a Porsche is a discrete looking sports car is in lala land. Most people think it's a millionaires toy, was bought with drug money or from cheating on taxes or by dentists who overcharge patients.

    Greetings from Lala land Smiley

    911's are a very common sight here in Europe, no-one blinks an eye when they pass by. Literally no one.


    --

    997.2 4S / BMW X5 40e / Donkervoort GT 


    Re: Corvette C8

    RC:
    nberry:

    You can't deduct expenses on the Corvette  but can on a Porsche? Why? Because the C8 is an American car?

    No, because the 911 is an "accepted" (German IRS) business car. Same as most AMG cars or BMW M cars.

    It is how it is and you should know that I think I read somewhere that over 60% of modern 911 in Germany are registered on companies. 

    Interesting. A Corvette can’t be a business car. It’s no wonder that less than one percent of all cars bought in Germany are American cars. As much as I dislike Trump, he may be on to something. crying


    --

    Assume most people are stupid and hope they surprise you.


    Re: Corvette C8

    In Europe there is definitely a home manufacturer preference , which is normal . One always favors and trust his owns more then the neighbor . 

    The countries that don't have car manufacturers are much more open to other brands . You will see much more Japanese , Corean , cars in Switzerland  or even Belgium for example then in France or Germany. 

    You will also see quite a lot of US cars in Switzerland , or in the northern countries .  The Mustang is all over the place here and probably one of the favorite cars of the young guys . It keeps an excellent resale value . 

    If a product is offering a good price for what it gives, it will sell in Switzerland . The problem with the Corvette until now , here , was that it was priced too high . Still, you see some driving around . 


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 


    Re: Corvette C8

    JimFlat6:

    Fourth, the C8 will assure that combined PCA and Corvette track days will not happen again, why? Who wants to be passed on the straight by a Vette that makes a Porsche look as slow as a Flintstones car.

    Maybe not well driven, but I was easily lapping a C7 ZR1 with my GT3 last week...


    --

     

    18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     


    Re: Corvette C8

    Grant, as you pointed out the driver makes all the difference. It'll be interesting to see whether the C8 will meet the performance expectations. BTW, how long is your track?


    --

    Assume most people are stupid and hope they surprise you.


    Re: Corvette C8

    nberry:

    Grant, as you pointed out the driver makes all the difference. It'll be interesting to see whether the C8 will meet the performance expectations. BTW, how long is your track?

    2.5 miles and 30 minute sessions that day...


    --

    18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: Corvette C8

    I hope the C8 will be sold here, so people could start to see how overpriced the 911’s are becoming. But it would never sell in big numbers over here, they just don’t have the dealer network the others have. And when you do find one, their showroom is filled with rebadged Daewoo crapboxes. enlightened


    --

    997.2 4S / BMW X5 40e / Donkervoort GT 


    Re: Corvette C8

    spudgun:

    I hope the C8 will be sold here, so people could start to see how overpriced the 911’s are becoming. But it would never sell in big numbers over here, they just don’t have the dealer network the others have. And when you do find one, their showroom is filled with rebadged Daewoo crapboxes. enlightened

    SmileySmiley


    --

    Assume most people are stupid and hope they surprise you.


    Re: Corvette C8

    spudgun:

    I hope the C8 will be sold here, so people could start to see how overpriced the 911’s are becoming. But it would never sell in big numbers over here, they just don’t have the dealer network the others have. And when you do find one, their showroom is filled with rebadged Daewoo crapboxes. enlightened

    Ford made a great effort to introduce and sell their latest Mustang and it sold well, keeping prices very attractive, publicity, bringing several models, etc... first time an American auto maker does this with one of their sportscars. GM would need to do the same with the Corvette, up until know they did nothing, no investment, crazy prices, etc coupled with the bad image the car has, and end result is many people never even seen one here.

    So I hope they do the same as Ford did with the Mustang, the mid-engined C8 would be a great opportunity to do so, but from the likes of it doesn't look like it... a shame, if it sold well here it would make it more apparent how expensive Euro-sportcars have gotten, specially the 911, but the again Porsche always seems unfazed by any newcomer, as long as they sell like they do, they have no reason to lower prices.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Corvette C8

    Grant:
    JimFlat6:

    Fourth, the C8 will assure that combined PCA and Corvette track days will not happen again, why? Who wants to be passed on the straight by a Vette that makes a Porsche look as slow as a Flintstones car.

    Maybe not well driven, but I was easily lapping a C7 ZR1 with my GT3 last week...


    --

     

    18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     

    I would hope you did! But a ,,C7 has a transverse leaf spring rear suspension  like a coal cart. Resulting in limited traction and crap handling.

    The C8 is midengine with coil overs at all corners.

    Your GT3 is doomed.

     

     


    Re: Corvette C8

    JimFlat6:
    Grant:
    JimFlat6:

    Fourth, the C8 will assure that combined PCA and Corvette track days will not happen again, why? Who wants to be passed on the straight by a Vette that makes a Porsche look as slow as a Flintstones car.

    Maybe not well driven, but I was easily lapping a C7 ZR1 with my GT3 last week...


    --

     

    18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     

    I would hope you did! But a ,,C7 has a transverse leaf spring rear suspension  like a coal cart. Resulting in limited traction and crap handling.

    The C8 is midengine with coil overs at all corners.

    Your GT3 is doomed.

     

     

    Never could understand why the Corvette development team kept that transverse leaf spring as long as they did since it hampered performance.  From a cost perspective, that leaf spring was more expensive to implement than a coil spring suspension.  


    Re: Corvette C8

    It was packaging reason before.

     


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