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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Whoopsy:
    SciFrog:

    First I do not agree with your “EV is only ready in a few cities” argument. EV is a problem ONLY in large cities. In the rest of the country, just charge at home. You can even use your electric dryer plug, basically everyone has one.

    Second, if large old groups like VW, BMW or Mercedes are so good at what they do, how do you explain that today there are ZERO of their cars in my large garage? How do you explain that Tesla is the largest represented brand on my office parking lot? How do you explain that every EV build today has Tesla in their crosshairs? It is simple, they missed the EV and software train and now they are a good 5 years behind. Like everyone else, they thought Tesla was going to fail. They were wrong (so far).

    Can VW beat Tesla at their own game? Maybe yes. Maybe no. But by the time they do, it might be too late and Tesla might sell 500,000+ cars a year and be stable financially.

    Opinions matter, especially when they are back by where ones $$$ goes.

     

    You are ONE sample among hundreds of millions of car buyers. 

    So am I, where I don't have any Tesla or EV cars. My city is one of the greenest electricity source in the world, 100% hydroelectric. There are many Teslas in town, and we don't have a highway in the middle of the city, so it's all city driving, primary purpose of a Tesla. Yet, Teslas are still a minority as compared to everything else. Heck, daily you will see more Ferrari McLaren and Lamborghini than Tesla. And charging is still a problem for most people. Majority of people living in the city is not on individual houses where they can have their own plug, condos have a few charging spots built into the parkade but not enough for everyone. Same with office and street parking where the availability of plugins spots is close to zero. 

     

    I"m in Vancouver every couple of months and the only reason you see more Ferraris, McLarens and Lamborghinis than Teslas is because you walk through your garage first thing every morning!Smiley

    Every major institutional office owner in Vancouver in in the process of, or has a plan under way, to have the majority if not all parking spots have plug-ins. The condo developers I talk to (and I'm in the middle of taking one of the biggest ones public) are all doing the same thing with their new builds going forward.  


    --

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    lukestern:
     

    think I've posted this image before, but it is spot on for a few members in here active in this thread Smiley

    dunning-kruger-effect.png

     

     

    Funny, that is exactly what someone under that effect would say Smiley  duelo.gif

    Owning stock is not the only thing that can make you heavily biased in this thread, being an owner can just as much, much more than those on the opposite side who generally actually have little vested interest in the matter, what you call knowledge on the matter from being an owner, I see as bias, and none of the owners are going to realise how bias they are, that is how cognitive biases work, and while it affects both sides, regarding tesla  owners,  it is well known how radical they are, like a cult sometimes.

    I admit there is one tesla owner on the forum that is unlike the rest and not biased, which I respect a lot and  therefore give more value to their opinions which is schmoell.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Mithras:
    Whoopsy:
    SciFrog:

    First I do not agree with your “EV is only ready in a few cities” argument. EV is a problem ONLY in large cities. In the rest of the country, just charge at home. You can even use your electric dryer plug, basically everyone has one.

    Second, if large old groups like VW, BMW or Mercedes are so good at what they do, how do you explain that today there are ZERO of their cars in my large garage? How do you explain that Tesla is the largest represented brand on my office parking lot? How do you explain that every EV build today has Tesla in their crosshairs? It is simple, they missed the EV and software train and now they are a good 5 years behind. Like everyone else, they thought Tesla was going to fail. They were wrong (so far).

    Can VW beat Tesla at their own game? Maybe yes. Maybe no. But by the time they do, it might be too late and Tesla might sell 500,000+ cars a year and be stable financially.

    Opinions matter, especially when they are back by where ones $$$ goes.

     

    You are ONE sample among hundreds of millions of car buyers. 

    So am I, where I don't have any Tesla or EV cars. My city is one of the greenest electricity source in the world, 100% hydroelectric. There are many Teslas in town, and we don't have a highway in the middle of the city, so it's all city driving, primary purpose of a Tesla. Yet, Teslas are still a minority as compared to everything else. Heck, daily you will see more Ferrari McLaren and Lamborghini than Tesla. And charging is still a problem for most people. Majority of people living in the city is not on individual houses where they can have their own plug, condos have a few charging spots built into the parkade but not enough for everyone. Same with office and street parking where the availability of plugins spots is close to zero. 

     

    I"m in Vancouver every couple of months and the only reason you see more Ferraris, McLarens and Lamborghinis than Teslas is because you walk through your garage first thing every morning!Smiley

     

    That's a good one SmileySmileySmileySmiley


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Carlos

    Owning stock is not the only thing that can make you heavily biased in this thread, being an owner can just as much, much more than those on the opposite side who generally actually have little vested interest in the matter, what you call knowledge on the matter from being an owner, I see as bias, and none of the owners are going to realise how bias they are, that is how cognitive biases work, and while it affects both sides, regarding tesla  owners,  it is well known how radical they are, like a cult sometimes.

    I admit there is one tesla owner on the forum that is unlike the rest and not biased, which I respect a lot and  therefore give more value to their opinions which is schmoell.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

    I am not biased, I am just reflecting on my first hand experience and give the good elements and the bad elements about it. If I was biased you would never hear about the bad ones. Also I have no loyalty to a brand. I have owned Porsches for over two decades but right now there is not a single car they produce that ticks the boxes, so why buy one? Life is too short to compromise on products that are not the best for a specific need.

    It just happens that the X has exceeded in many ways my expectations, it is the BEST vehicle on the market for a specific need today and all the shortcomings that people have forewarned have turn out to be not relevant against the whole package.

    Has this influenced my views on Tesla as a company? Of course it has, but that’s not a bias, that’s an opinion forged from real experience. A bias is from many people here who have barely or ever tried the car but keep bashing it because of personal or business reasons, or because they simply don’t like the design, and there is plenty of that in one form or the other around here...


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Mithras:
    Whoopsy:
    SciFrog:

    First I do not agree with your “EV is only ready in a few cities” argument. EV is a problem ONLY in large cities. In the rest of the country, just charge at home. You can even use your electric dryer plug, basically everyone has one.

    Second, if large old groups like VW, BMW or Mercedes are so good at what they do, how do you explain that today there are ZERO of their cars in my large garage? How do you explain that Tesla is the largest represented brand on my office parking lot? How do you explain that every EV build today has Tesla in their crosshairs? It is simple, they missed the EV and software train and now they are a good 5 years behind. Like everyone else, they thought Tesla was going to fail. They were wrong (so far).

    Can VW beat Tesla at their own game? Maybe yes. Maybe no. But by the time they do, it might be too late and Tesla might sell 500,000+ cars a year and be stable financially.

    Opinions matter, especially when they are back by where ones $$$ goes.

     

    You are ONE sample among hundreds of millions of car buyers. 

    So am I, where I don't have any Tesla or EV cars. My city is one of the greenest electricity source in the world, 100% hydroelectric. There are many Teslas in town, and we don't have a highway in the middle of the city, so it's all city driving, primary purpose of a Tesla. Yet, Teslas are still a minority as compared to everything else. Heck, daily you will see more Ferrari McLaren and Lamborghini than Tesla. And charging is still a problem for most people. Majority of people living in the city is not on individual houses where they can have their own plug, condos have a few charging spots built into the parkade but not enough for everyone. Same with office and street parking where the availability of plugins spots is close to zero. 

     

    I"m in Vancouver every couple of months and the only reason you see more Ferraris, McLarens and Lamborghinis than Teslas is because you walk through your garage first thing every morning!Smiley

    Every major institutional office owner in Vancouver in in the process of, or has a plan under way, to have the majority if not all parking spots have plug-ins. The condo developers I talk to (and I'm in the middle of taking one of the biggest ones public) are all doing the same thing with their new builds going forward.  

     

    As it happens I have none of those in my garage nowSmiley The only non-Porsche is the Alfa 4C, not counting the Golf and the Honda.

    But yes, the new trend is to build charging stuff in the parkade going forward, there will be at least a couple spots if not more, the city is starting to expand the infrastructure for EV, but not as quickly as they have expanded the cycling stuff though.


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    The infrastructure could take a couple of decades, especially in Europe...

    Tesla is within reach of new record quarter for deliveries, says Elon Musk

    https://apple.news/AI2tpDMJUTsOkNK93B8rh2g

    Bring out the popcorn IF true (very big IF), as written yesterday, there are the seeds for a massive short covering...

     

     

    Tales from a Tesla Model S with 450,000 miles: Battery life, durability, and more

    https://apple.news/AIdFeA9BsRlaYmG3aVGxqaQ

    Surprisingly low spending to maintain the car and the car has held up pretty well, but on its third battery, under warranty...

     

     

     

    2019 Tesla Model S Long Range vs. 2013 Model S 85: How do they compare in value?

    https://apple.news/ASYKyg1O2MmGY7WG5kpUlWA

    Nick, Tesla keeps upgrading the cars all the time, saying it is the same car is not true, some things might stay, but many are evolving.

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:
    Carlos

    Owning stock is not the only thing that can make you heavily biased in this thread, being an owner can just as much, much more than those on the opposite side who generally actually have little vested interest in the matter, what you call knowledge on the matter from being an owner, I see as bias, and none of the owners are going to realise how bias they are, that is how cognitive biases work, and while it affects both sides, regarding tesla  owners,  it is well known how radical they are, like a cult sometimes.

    I admit there is one tesla owner on the forum that is unlike the rest and not biased, which I respect a lot and  therefore give more value to their opinions which is schmoell.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

    I am not biased, I am just reflecting on my first hand experience and give the good elements and the bad elements about it. If I was biased you would never hear about the bad ones. Also I have no loyalty to a brand. I have owned Porsches for over two decades but right now there is not a single car they produce that ticks the boxes, so why buy one? Life is too short to compromise on products that are not the best for a specific need.

    It just happens that the X has exceeded in many ways my expectations, it is the BEST vehicle on the market for a specific need today and all the shortcomings that people have forewarned have turn out to be not relevant against the whole package.

    Has this influenced my views on Tesla as a company? Of course it has, but that’s not a bias, that’s an opinion forged from real experience. A bias is from many people here who have barely or ever tried the car but keep bashing it because of personal or business reasons, or because they simply don’t like the design, and there is plenty of that in one form or the other around here...

    That is not what bias is our how it works, you are far from unbiased, and actially we are ALL biased here, just that some are more than others depending on their vested interest (ex owning stock, being a tesla owner, etc) and belief systems (green ideooogy, political, social...), etc. It's going to change the way you look at the issue, how you accept and interpret informaron, etc. confirmation bias, cognitive dissonance, backfire effect, post-purchase rationalization and many logical fallacies are rampant in this thread more than any other thread in the forum. 


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Bias:
    prejudice in favor of or against one thing, person, or group compared with another, usually in a way considered to be unfair.

    Prejudice:
    preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience. 

    I stick to my guns, I am not biased at all in the pure definition of the term, clearly yes I liked the idea of a car, bought it and it vastly exceeded expectations, my posts relate my experience with it...

     

    Post purchase rationalization?  Not in this household, we are lucky enough not to have to live with something that does not reach some level of expectations, life is too short to drive an average car angry

    Cognitive dissonance: the state of having inconsistent thoughts, beliefs, or attitudes, especially as relating to behavioral decisions and attitude change. I have not seen much of that here, on the contrary, people are making irrational and dishonest statements to defend impossible positions they have cornered themselves in...


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    If you are human, you are biased, cognitive bias is an integral part of normal brain functioning, it is just a of matter of how much, and almost always much more than we are aware of or care to admit to ourselves. And realizing and accepting this is the best way to detect them in oneself and decreasing their power in our thoughts and opinions, even though you can never be free of them competely. I can admit Im biased in this thread, however, I dont own or will own Tesla stock, dont own a Tesla nor contemplating it, nor does Tesla affect me one way or the other in any way, no matter what happens to Tesla, so the power of bias is not that big on me unlike you.

    As to cognitive dissonance, that is not a good definition, that is a dictionary definition not the scientific one, cognitive dissonance theory relates  more to having rooted beliefs about something and when new information challenges those beliefs and are contrary to them, you will rationalise and change that info through different  ways so that it is consistent with those beliefs. Seen plenty of examples in this thread, the "good enough" argument regarding the tesla tesla shortcomings is one.

    That said, as much as I like metacognition, it is a futile discussion in this thread though, ironically because of both of our biases on the subject, as opposed to taking about it unrelated to all this over a cup of coffee for example.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    I think you and I have too much time on their hands today wink 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:

    The infrastructure could take a couple of decades, especially in Europe...

    Tesla is within reach of new record quarter for deliveries, says Elon Musk

    https://apple.news/AI2tpDMJUTsOkNK93B8rh2g

    Bring out the popcorn IF true (very big IF), as written yesterday, there are the seeds for a massive short covering...

     

     

    Tales from a Tesla Model S with 450,000 miles: Battery life, durability, and more

    https://apple.news/AIdFeA9BsRlaYmG3aVGxqaQ

    Surprisingly low spending to maintain the car and the car has held up pretty well, but on its third battery, under warranty...

     

     

     

    2019 Tesla Model S Long Range vs. 2013 Model S 85: How do they compare in value?

    https://apple.news/ASYKyg1O2MmGY7WG5kpUlWA

    Nick, Tesla keeps upgrading the cars all the time, saying it is the same car is not true, some things might stay, but many are evolving.

     

     

    The timing of Elon's email. Pretty much classic stock price manipulation tactic. His public tweets needed to be certified but internal emails are exempt. Tesla stock price are highly manipulated by both sides, it's not a rational pricing or movement. Short squeeze or big drops are the normal.

    Tesla pushes out software updates, those can't changed the physical hardware limitations, at best it can only work around them. Nothing more. A wire can only so much current for example, dialling up the current in software isn't going to make the wire transfer anymore than the peak capacity.

    Apart from build quality, no one really argues how long a Tesla can be driven. They are a modern car manufacturer, making a car last 450,000 miles should be a give, especially it uses a electric motor and not a internal combustion engine, which can only last long if someone keeps up the service schedule.

    Did Tesla disclose how they dispose of the old battery? Those batteries contains a great amount of toxic materials after all.

     


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:

    I think you and I have too much time on their hands today wink 

    ​​​​​

    wink


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Whoopsy:
     

    Tesla pushes out software updates, those can't changed the physical hardware limitations, at best it can only work around them. Nothing more. A wire can only so much current for example, dialling up the current in software isn't going to make the wire transfer anymore than the peak capacity.

    Apart from build quality, no one really argues how long a Tesla can be driven. They are a modern car manufacturer, making a car last 450,000 miles should be a give, especially it uses a electric motor and not a internal combustion engine, which can only last long if someone keeps up the service schedule.

    Did Tesla disclose how they dispose of the old battery? Those batteries contains a great amount of toxic materials after all.

    This is not entirely correct. One example is the use of their batteries. Tesla started with a conservative approach to charging and usage. Now, after many years and enough data, they better understand how the batteries degrade over time and as a result they raised the max charge power for older cars. But in general you are right (of course).

    Recycling of Lithium batteries is an active research topic. There are some companies (startups I'd say) that have a working method. But as of today this is more expensive than a brand new battery. Time will tell if economy of scale can fix this.  

    fwiw: Tesla has no mandatory service anymore. They recommend to check things (e.g. brakes) every two years.  I recently asked for a service appointment to get some small things fixed and the wait time here in Munich is 2 month, which is even worse than Porsche


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Another scandalous piece that will raise the ire of the usual suspects; however, the article is also well-written, succinct, and poignantly on topic about the self-induced ills of Tesla.  Every time I hear someone talk, or write, about the new new economics and how the dinosaurs simply aren't intellectually capable of understand the new world order, I recall the go-go days of the late 1990s and the number of companies that destroys huge swaths of capital.   These companies include MarchFirst, Starbelly, Boo.com, and Van Wagoner funds.  

    It is not often that I quote Marx, however, his phrase about history repeats itself, "first as tragedy, then as farce," is exceedingly appropriate when the discussion turns to the new economic order of the eternal profitless organization.

    Tesla's Wall Street Romance Is Over

    Morgan Stanley's Adam Jonas concedes that Tesla is just a poorly-run automaker, signalling an end to its run as a momentum "story stock".

    Bloomberg via Getty Images

    Ever since Tesla's 2013 "miracle month," the electric automaker's valuation has soared well beyond what the fundamentals of a car manufacturer's capital-intensive, low-margin business might support. While automaker valuations languished even through years of bumper sales and profits, Tesla's stock soared on the strength of the idea that it was a "technology velociraptor," in the words of CEO Elon Musk, and not just some "metal bender." Now, after 6 years of reality-defying euphoria the Tesla story is coming back down to earth and taking the stock price with it... or is it the other way around?

    Morgan Stanley autos analyst Adam Jonas has been one of main authors of Tesla's high-tech disruptor narrative on Wall Street, having recommended a price target as high as $450 per share in 2015, valued its nonexistent "Tesla Mobility" division at over $100 per share and generally hyped Tesla's ability transcend the tough economics of auto manufacturing. Just two short years ago, he compared Tesla's "disruptive" impact to Henry Ford, Thomas Edison and Cornelius Vanderbilt, and explicitly stated that Tesla shouldn't be seen as just an automaker. "We think the sooner that the market can start to view Tesla as something other than just selling machines for people to own privately and operate in some automated form themselves, the more the events of the next few years are going to make sense" he told BusinessInsider.

    Now, in a private call with Morgan Stanley clients, Jonas is dramatically changing his tune. Though he continues to think Tesla's technology is superior to other automakers, he's now talking about the company as if it were just another automaker. His justification for this about-face comes down to Tesla's slowing sales growth and massive debt load, which he says makes Tesla a "restructuring story." I know it's heresy to suggest that you can compare the valuation of Tesla with its genuinely class leading tech and brand positioning to Volkswagen," he said, "but you know if this company is not growing you invite yourself to those comparisons even at a zero dollar equity value the enterprise value to sales ratio of Tesla would be 50 percent or so higher than VW."

    What Jonas is saying here is that Wall Street has pumped cash into Tesla as if its sales would keep growing forever, and they simply aren't anymore. This creates the kind of situation that has caused the majority of auto manufacturer bankruptcies: overinvestment in production capacity without the ability to sell profitably at the same rate. "They've built this hulking physical infrastructure to supply more like a million cars a year, not 350,000 cars a year," he said. "And that's what's creating this bleeding."

    But in reality, this is really only part of the story. Sure, Tesla's inability to profitably build Model 3s at the projected base price of $35,000 means that sales volumes will inevitably fall short of projections but that's not really featured into the debates between Tesla bears and bulls. Instead, Tesla's boosters like Jonas framed the fundamentals of its auto manufacturing business as a distraction from the real story: its disruption of the energy sector, its autonomous mobility plans, its transformation of the car into a software platform, even the possibility of merging with Musk's SpaceX. What Jonas is saying is the exact opposite of what he told DeBord in 2017: Tesla's ability to profitably make and sell "machines for people to own" is the factor on which its disruptive potential rests.

     This is what I and other auto industry watchers have been saying for years, while Jonas's fantasies of Tesla robotaxis and green energy distracted from countless red flags about the company's ability to manufacture cars efficiently and profitably. Ironically, these problems worked in Tesla's favor for a long time, with its organizational chaos and lack of manufacturing focus keeping it production constrained and preventing the oversupply that plagues it today. Indeed, if Tesla had efficiently invested the $4.5 billion it has raised to achieve 500,000 units per year of Model 3 production that remains elusive to this day, its overcapacity problems would be even worse today.

    So while Jonas remains focused on demand, the reality is that Tesla's demand is only a problem relative to the massive amounts of cash that his employers have helped the automakers raise through debt and equity sales. Had Jonas been consistently cautious about Tesla's ability to build $35,000 cars at high volumes (which even the most cursory analysis of its manufacturing and operational record should have prompted), Tesla might have been forced to focus on the fundamentals of its core business. Instead, by hyping its high-tech hopes and dreams and downplaying its status as an auto manufacturer, Jonas helped pump Tesla's balance sheet with the very overinvestment that now has him calling for a restructuring.

    After all, Jonas had an opportunity to raise these concerns just three weeks ago when his employers at Morgan Stanley served as book-running underwriters for a $2.7 billion Tesla debt and equity raise. If Jonas is worried about Tesla's sales growth relative to its capital structure today, there's no reason he shouldn't have been worried about it three weeks ago. The only thing that has changed since then is that Morgan has collected the hefty fees it earned by piling more debt onto Tesla's books. To say that the timing of Jonas's road to Damascus moment serves Morgan Stanley far better than its clients would be a significant understatement... especially since the details of Tesla's last capital raise suggest that its market magic is wearing off.

    Ultimately though, Tesla has only itself to blame for its thorny predicament. Ever since the fateful first quarter of 2013, Musk has done everything in his power to push the company's stock price higher, spinning story after story about battery swap, solar Superchargers, the Solar City merger, autonomous robotaxis, streaming music services and anything else that might tickle the market's fancy. Nobody forced Musk to pay off government loans and get into bed with the Wall Street banks, let alone let Tesla's fundamentals fester, and he has profited handsomely from the intervening years of frothy stock prices. Now that the party seems to be ending and former narrative-pumpers like Jonas are turning on him, he is simply paying a price that was always going to be paid.

    The highs and lows of Tesla's dance with the Wall Street devil holds numerous lessons for other mobility technology startups, but the most important is that auto manufacturing is, always has been and will always be about fundamental execution. Wall Street might buy (and more importantly, sell) your stories of high tech disruption, but if you raise too much cash and can't make the unit economics work consistently it's just a matter of time before they turn on you. Tesla has survived a lot longer than its fundamentals suggest it should have, and it has undoubtedly made a mark on automotive history, but its main lesson may well end up being the auto industry's oldest.

    https://www.thedrive.com/tech/28169/teslas-wall-street-romance-is-over 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Jonas will draw the ires of all Tesla fanboys. He was their god when he was blowing the Tesla horn not a few year ago.

    Those same fanboys are already turning against Consumer Reports, which at one point was their golden bible as CR had top rating for a Tesla.

     


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Time for pitchforks and torches. Oh, wait!  Nix the torches. Too much carbon emissions plus one would imagine watching irate Tesla fans boy attack is the same as watching some of the soy boy antifa boot camp videos.  


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Analysts tend to be backwards looking, Tesla stock just dropped, they drop their forecast. BTW what is Adam Jonas target price for Tesla again?  I save you the research, it is still $230 a share...

    If there is one thing I have learned in my carrer, it is not to trust analysts and private bankers. They do not know how to predict anything. They can explain things in depth, but they have zero predictive power. Simple proof is that if they had some, they would be hedge fund managers and makes tons of money. They don’t. Private bankers are just not that different from cars salesman, expect they talk and dress better. They will push their product because they get a commission, but they do not know more than you do if you do your own research and understand finance. I do everything myself and have had far greater success than anyone I have talked to. They do provide a service for non financial savvy people, but it comes at a cost much greater than anyone can imagine.

    I will not try to predict what Tesla sales will be in Q2, no one can, but for argument sake, just imagine what will happen if indeed Tesla sells 90,000 cars in Q2? Then everything that will have been written in Q1 will be immediately rendered obsolete. If Tesla sales come in around 65,000, then they will just keep the same rethoric. So why all the stories today? Once again, because the media pushes them because it sells a ton of ads. Very simple.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Whoopsy:
     

    Tesla pushes out software updates, those can't changed the physical hardware limitations, at best it can only work around them. Nothing more. A wire can only so much current for example, dialling up the current in software isn't going to make the wire transfer anymore than the peak capacity.

    Apart from build quality, no one really argues how long a Tesla can be driven. They are a modern car manufacturer, making a car last 450,000 miles should be a give, especially it uses a electric motor and not a internal combustion engine, which can only last long if someone keeps up the service schedule.

    Did Tesla disclose how they dispose of the old battery? Those batteries contains a great amount of toxic materials after all.

    The cable is the limiting factor, if your equipment can deliver 5000A and your cable can carry only 10A, nothing will stop the flow of the 5000A till the cable melt or blow up. By safety regulation, you can't exceed what your cable can do.

    Electric motor does require some maintenance and generally any electrical system. The cooling/ventilation system needs to stay clean, motor has bearings that needs to be lubricated, the insulation of the windings can change (over heating) and lead to short-circuit or vibrations and finally the misalignment of the shaft.

    Any connection needs to be checked for tightening. loose connection creates over heat, fire, unbalance.

    we usually don't speak as miles lasting but more like running hours, around 20,000 to  40,000h before severe maintenance and depending on the material that you selected.


    --

     

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

     

    991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    20,000 hours at 30mph is 600,000 miles. Will not have to worry with that.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:

    I think you and I have too much time on their hands today wink 

    Smiley Smiley Don't worry, you guys are lucky I have not enough time today. Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    I thought I'd share some news about the topic of this thread 

    https://evannex.com/blogs/news/new-tesla-roadster-video-shows-its-unique-entry-feature-rear-seats

    Video from that post and some photos on Instagram 

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    BMW shareholders worry about Tesla's competitive advantage:

    https://apple.news/A79Ql5eV0ScaGqgh19FoOqg

    Many here dismiss Tesla threat to the traditional industry, especially the German luxury auto makers. Well thankfully shareholders of these companies know better...


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    WSJ: 2019 Audi e-tron: Still Chasing Tesla

    https://apple.news/Aun1S_Q9QQAirLdEjIr3PIQ

    Not very flattering but short on details, but from the WSJ... Nothing we did not know before.

    The bottom line: well built but with “off the shelf” Audi parts, battery and car inefficient, slower charging than Tesla, unimpressive specs, very Audi. Not a bad start but they were expecting better for a car 10 years in the making.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:

    BMW shareholders worry about Tesla's competitive advantage:

    https://apple.news/A79Ql5eV0ScaGqgh19FoOqg

    Many here dismiss Tesla threat to the traditional industry, especially the German luxury auto makers. Well thankfully shareholders of these companies know better...

     

    Nothing in there article said that.

    Plus, EV is not mainstream and far from mainstream, it's still a niche market and will remain so until infrastructure can catch up, if at all.

    There is nothing wrong with the BMW i3. At this moment if I were to buy a EV car for city driving only, I am totally getting a i3 with the extender. Will not consider anything else. Not Taycan, not Tesla, not Bolt or Volt.

     


    --

     

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Whoopsy:
    SciFrog:

    BMW shareholders worry about Tesla's competitive advantage:

    https://apple.news/A79Ql5eV0ScaGqgh19FoOqg

    Many here dismiss Tesla threat to the traditional industry, especially the German luxury auto makers. Well thankfully shareholders of these companies know better...

     

    Nothing in there article said that.

    Plus, EV is not mainstream and far from mainstream, it's still a niche market and will remain so until infrastructure can catch up, if at all.

    There is nothing wrong with the BMW i3. At this moment if I were to buy a EV car for city driving only, I am totally getting a i3 with the extender. Will not consider anything else. Not Taycan, not Tesla, not Bolt or Volt.

     

    Completely concur.  That Dan Neil article was lacking in details and SciFrog's reply was an embellishment of that facile commentary.  

    Every Teslaphile feels obligated to compare the alleged superiority of their Tesla with the new entrants in the EV marketplace.  The Audi e-tron is achieving what it set out to do-be an Audi SUV with a slightly different prime mover and it is distinguished by its ordinariness.  Its nearest competitor is the new Mercede-Benz EQC as that SUV is seeking the same mission of providing alternate methods of propulsion as the EU and China follow a path of decarbonization.  

    Statements denigrating the utilization of components from other conventionally fueled vehicles is demonstrative os  lack of understanding about the automotive industry.  There is nothing unique with most systems employed in building a vehicle outside of the powertrain assembly modulars.  Sharing components across vehicles is cost effective and the reason why some automakers are profitable and others are not.  

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    German shareholder association Vice President Daniela Bergdolt said in a speech at BMW’s recent annual shareholder’s meeting (via Auto News Europe):

    Where is this model offensive? Sure, you’ve got the iNEXT, but I was expecting something that blows Tesla out of the water.”

     

    Interpret it the way you want...


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Mercedes, BMW are competing against themselves, Tesla is far far far far afar off the radar. 

    That shareholder VP knows nothing about automotive business, he just wants something BMW will make that will blow Tesla out of the water, thinking it's an important market, but what he doesn't know but the board knows is the market segment shares. EV cars are still a minority, there is not much profit to be made there if at all. If BMW do as he says and concentrate on a Tesla beater, BMW will be like Tesla, forever unable to make a profit. 

    VAG seems like going all out into EV, but that's still a minority effort as compared to the overall conglomerate. 

    Wait a few years when the market stabilize then one can make some decent conclusions. 

    Who knows, maybe by that time EV will be out of favour and fuel cell cars will be the future. 


    --

     

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Is the Tesla M​odel X the best electric car on sale?

    https://apple.news/AZqEjQayJQZanGGciztiR1w

    Some things they say is exactly what I have written here (like agile but not a sportcar). They think the interior materials is not on par with the segment it is competing against. Well maybe they do not know Tesla tries not to use leather... They do not like the design either, nothing new there either.

    Bottom line: they are kind of bluffed by the X, as I have been in the last two months of use, and there is zero competition in its segment. I will reiterate what will bother a lot of you here: the X is the BEST daily driver I have ever owned.

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:

    Is the Tesla M​odel X the best electric car on sale?

    https://apple.news/AZqEjQayJQZanGGciztiR1w

    Some things they say is exactly what I have written here (like agile but not a sportcar). They think the interior materials is not on par with the segment it is competing against. Well maybe they do not know Tesla tries not to use leather... They do not like the design either, nothing new there either.

    Bottom line: they are kind of bluffed by the X, as I have been in the last two months of use, and there is zero competition in its segment. I will reiterate what will bother a lot of you here: the X is the BEST daily driver I have ever owned.

     

     

    That's for you.

    Mine will be the Turbo S Exclusive. Or my Cayenne Turbo S.

    Some would put their S-class, 7 series as their best daily.

    Others will say it's their Golf, or their Audis, Corvette, Rolls Royce, Bentley, whatever.

    It's highly objective. And situation dependent.


    --

     

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Scifrog: 

    Bottom line: they are kind of bluffed by the X, as I have been in the last two months of use, and there is zero competition in its segment. I will reiterate what will bother a lot of you here: the X is the BEST daily driver I have ever owned.

     

    Doesn't bother me, all you are saying is that it is the best daily driver for you, don't see a problem with that at all, you are speaking just for yourself.

    OTOH a 2.5 ton EV minivan on autopilot as a daily would make me absolutely miserable. Best part of the working day for me is the commute because I get to do it on a 911 and my commute allows me to enjoy driving it. To each his own.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


     
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