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    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    SoCal Alan:
    Carrageous:
    I like the blue here, it shows off the lines very well. And the chrome trim around he elements looks good, too. I think it has a nice, hot rod look to it that I wasn't expecting. Looks tough and take-charge.

     

    I think it's kind of wierd to have the chrome trim around the side windows but not the front and back.


    Agreed. That doesn't fit together. Smiley


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    For me a Grand Tourer, as the name suggests, is a car build to cover large distances in a relative short time with a certain degree of comfort. The kind of car that values softer suspension settings and gizmos more than weight and mass transfer. A car build to sustain driving at 250km/h for one hour, mostly in a straight line, without "breaking a sweat", a high speed cruiser. The sport car is the sprinter that values each gram and is agile and fast. Of course, everything is relative so all that I am saying is that from my point of view they pushed the comfort accessories too far and now people that were interested in 6 series, Jag's and Mercedes CL and so on, will find themselves at home in the 991. Keyless entry, ventilated seats, center console (easy accessible buttons area basically), expensive sound systems, etc, are all a bit too much for my taste. And normally I would ignore them and order the car without them. But this time I can't delete the center console or shorten the wheelbase or have better front visibility and so on, can I?
    --

    There is no try. Just do.


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Any information on the service intervals? I change my own oil and dont see how you get access to the motor


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    996cal:

    Any information on the service intervals? I change my own oil and dont see how you get access to the motor

    Just lift the lid in the rear, and access to fluids is on the left.


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    The 991 looks very similar to previous Porsche's and sounds almost the same which is to say no sound. Why would anyone who owns a 997 trade their car in for this car?yes


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    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    indecision

    A much much nicer interior that finally catch up to the 21st century, sleeker exterior profile, more power and performance, just to name a few reasons.

    As for the sound, it's nothing an after market exhaust can't fix.

    I am in line for a 991 Turbo WHEN it comes out, the wait is already killing me.


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    At this moment, I still prefer my 997.2 GTS.. purely from the visuals - I haven't seen the 991 in the flesh! My initial impressions agree with those who contend that the new car appears to be more of a GT variety than a sports car. I'll reserve my final opinion until I see the 991.2 GTS - this rendering may serve to change my mind, but I won't be rushing out to buy a 991.1 C2S.
    --

    "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    nberry:

    The 991 looks very similar to previous Porsche's

    Its a 911, thats how its supposed to look and reatin the general look generation after generation.

    and sounds almost the same which is to say no sound.

    Have you ever heard a GT3 or a Carrera with PSE? The sound of the atmospheric boxter engine is iconic and never get tired of it, even when I park the car and it's growls ecoe in the garage it will draw a smirk on my face from time to time. Of course you don't get that in a Turbo, I agree, but the Turbo is not the only 911. 

    Why would anyone who owns a 997 trade their car in for this car?yes

    Handling? driving experience? if its better in the 991, I'd say those are pretty good reasons, after all this is a sportcar... add in the classic 911 look and a PSE and you will see why many will.


    --


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    nberry:

    The 991 looks very similar to previous Porsche's and sounds almost the same which is to say no sound. Why would anyone who owns a 997 trade their car in for this car?yes

     

    Some of us have had their 997 since the launch.  Like being married for too long, It's time for a change, even if the new woman doesn't look that much different than the old one. Smiley


    --

    2005 997S Blk/Blk


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Whoopsy:

    indecision

    A much much nicer interior that finally catch up to the 21st century, sleeker exterior profile, more power and performance, just to name a few reasons.

    As for the sound, it's nothing an after market exhaust can't fix.

    I am in line for a 991 Turbo WHEN it comes out, the wait is already killing me.

     agree... and also when they have too much spare cash to waste... :D


    --

    997.2 PDK C2S


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Was at the show yesterday. Will be at the show again today, before heading back to Milan. The interior doesn't look so over the top in person, even though the pics were making it look like too much. Only the exterior back is little different, and I think its a good think, at least now some people might stop calling it the bug.  

    There was lot of talk about people liking the new Agate Grey colour, but was not impressed by it in person, I hope they bring back the Slate Grey. Anyway won't be trading in the GTS for the 991 until the mid-cyle update.


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    The 911 represents different things to different people. While that may be obvious it's often easily overlooked when discussing the car among enthusiasts.  As a 54 year old who's concept of the 911 is firmly rooted in the mid 20th century the current iteration has finally crossed the threshold of what I am conceptually able to recognize as a 911.  This process has been evolving for Porsche and for me since the 996, and while I enjoy my 997, I find it to be at the size limit of what I find desirable.  What I primarily see in the 991 is an integration among Porsche models that now includes sedans and SUVs.  The Panamera and Cayenne drivers can now say that the 911 DNA is clearly evident in their models as well.  It's a good business model and based on the responses in this thread does not seem to negatively impact future 991 sales.


    --

    "Don't worry about avoiding temptation, as you grow older it will avoid you"  Churchill


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    DaveC:

    The 911 represents different things to different people. While that may be obvious it's often easily overlooked when discussing the car among enthusiasts.  As a 54 year old who's concept of the 911 is firmly rooted in the mid 20th century the current iteration has finally crossed the threshold of what I am conceptually able to recognize as a 911.  This process has been evolving for Porsche and for me since the 996, and while I enjoy my 997, I find it to be at the size limit of what I find desirable.  What I primarily see in the 991 is an integration among Porsche models that now includes sedans and SUVs.  The Panamera and Cayenne drivers can now say that the 911 DNA is clearly evident in their models as well.  It's a good business model and based on the responses in this thread does not seem to negatively impact future 991 sales.

    So you wouldn't find a Carrera GT desirable? The CGT is much larger car than the 911. The new 991, though it is a bit larger than the 997, you have to remember, it is still a small car (look how small it looks when people stand next  to it), and IMHO, I think from certain angles it looks smaller than the 997 because of the lowered roofline.

    Not to mention, the 991 is less "massive". I.E, it is 100lbs lighter.


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    The GT3 has a good sound. The base 991 does not. You know and I know that. Why in the hell should anyone pay more to make a sport car sound like a sport car? Regarding handling, I doubt very much would you be able to distinguish a substantially difference between what you own and the 991.

    I guess the best reason to trade in is what Alan alluded to. He has had his car a long time and the time is to turn it in for another one. I have a similar situation. The lease on the TT is up in March of 2013. More than likely my wife will want another one. I certainly would not buy out the rest of the lease. Therefore, she will lease a new one unless I am so disenchanted with the 991 TT we look elsewhere.


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    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    nberry:

    The GT3 has a good sound. The base 991 does not. You know and I know that. Why in the hell should anyone pay more to make a sport car sound like a sport car?

    Nick, my 997.1 with PSE is even louder and growls more than a GT3, and PSE is simple a factory option just like leather. And I'm not talking about stand still reving, I have driven behind GT3's at WOT. Comparing the two, personally I like the lower end of the rev range of the 997.1 PSE but above 5000RPM the GT3 is just music to my ears with its more metallic ring to it at the top of the rev range.

    Regarding handling, I doubt very much would you be able to distinguish a substantially difference between what you own and the 991.

    To me there is a big difference between the 996 and the 997 in handling, b/w the 997 -10mm and -20mm, b/w the Carrera and the Turbo, etc. I have compared all in street and track and written about those differences in the troad tests I have posted here. Maybe you don't value those differences in handling as much as I do and may seem smaller to you (I agree it may be subjective) or maybe you have not tried any other 997 version other than the Turbo, but the differences are indeed substancial, and the 991 now even makes a bigger jump chasis/suspension wise from the 997 than the 996 vs 997 so if any the difference will be even more noticeable.

    Also time for a change is a good reason indeed, but in my case I'm very happy with the kart-like handling of my 997-1-20mm which I love so if I'm going to change to a 991 its not going to be for a change, it better "wow me" in terms of handling, steering, etc compared to my 997 as my 997 did compared to my ex-996.


    --


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Carrara:
    DaveC:

    The 911 represents different things to different people. While that may be obvious it's often easily overlooked when discussing the car among enthusiasts.  As a 54 year old who's concept of the 911 is firmly rooted in the mid 20th century the current iteration has finally crossed the threshold of what I am conceptually able to recognize as a 911.  This process has been evolving for Porsche and for me since the 996, and while I enjoy my 997, I find it to be at the size limit of what I find desirable.  What I primarily see in the 991 is an integration among Porsche models that now includes sedans and SUVs.  The Panamera and Cayenne drivers can now say that the 911 DNA is clearly evident in their models as well.  It's a good business model and based on the responses in this thread does not seem to negatively impact future 991 sales.

    So you wouldn't find a Carrera GT desirable? The CGT is much larger car than the 911. The new 991, though it is a bit larger than the 997, you have to remember, it is still a small car (look how small it looks when people stand next  to it), and IMHO, I think from certain angles it looks smaller than the 997 because of the lowered roofline.

    Not to mention, the 991 is less "massive". I.E, it is 100lbs lighter.

    I think we can all agree that the characteristics that define desirability are highly individual.  An intrinsic element of the 911 concept has been its ability to serve as a daily driver.  In terms of parking ease, agility in traffic, mechanical reliability, as well as offering "practical performance" the 911 has had few competitors in its price/performance niche.  I would doubt that a CGT or Ferrari 430 would be pressed into such duty by the majority of such owners, despite their unquestioned desirability.  While many will no doubt adopt the 991 as a daily driver, for my part the car's overall size and steadily increasing emphasis on the luxury features that isolate the driver from the environment dilute my concept of the 911. Chacun son gout.


    --

    "Don't worry about avoiding temptation, as you grow older it will avoid you"  Churchill


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    nberry:

    The GT3 has a good sound. The base 991 does not. You know and I know that. Why in the hell should anyone pay more to make a sport car sound like a sport car? Regarding handling, I doubt very much would you be able to distinguish a substantially difference between what you own and the 991.

    I guess the best reason to trade in is what Alan alluded to. He has had his car a long time and the time is to turn it in for another one. I have a similar situation. The lease on the TT is up in March of 2013. More than likely my wife will want another one. I certainly would not buy out the rest of the lease. Therefore, she will lease a new one unless I am so disenchanted with the 991 TT we look elsewhere.

    The base 991, you're right, doesn't sound that good, but with the sport exhaust it sounds amamzing.

    And I guarantee you the 991 is much more agile than the 997.


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Carrara:
    nberry:

    The GT3 has a good sound. The base 991 does not. You know and I know that. Why in the hell should anyone pay more to make a sport car sound like a sport car? Regarding handling, I doubt very much would you be able to distinguish a substantially difference between what you own and the 991.

    I guess the best reason to trade in is what Alan alluded to. He has had his car a long time and the time is to turn it in for another one. I have a similar situation. The lease on the TT is up in March of 2013. More than likely my wife will want another one. I certainly would not buy out the rest of the lease. Therefore, she will lease a new one unless I am so disenchanted with the 991 TT we look elsewhere.

    The base 991, you're right, doesn't sound that good, but with the sport exhaust it sounds amamzing.

    And I guarantee you the 991 is much more agile than the 997.

    I am sure the handling would be better, specially with PDCC and infinite programming of the electric power steering. Just like the DFI engine, electromagnetic suspension, they all can be easily programed to suite every individual. The future sport button should have programming for auto crossing, high speed track, public road, etc.


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Where this guy was standing??? 3 991's??

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXopgNt8TAs


    --

    2008 Range Rover Sport Supercharged

    2007 997 GT3

    2006 Mercedes G500

    1993 964 Turbo (Sold)


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    In standard configuration, the 991 interior is a bit "busy" IMHO. Lots of metal stuff in a space far smaller than a Panamera which can absorb the busyness better. If you are looking for a calmer and more restful interior, talk to the Exclusive folks at Porsche. The expresso interior on the platinum 991in the Exclusive salon at Frankfurt was beautiful, while the more basic grey interior on the blue car was irritating to me. Each to his own, but if restful interiors are important to you, sit in some different configurations before placing your order...

    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    BlackOctober:

    Where this guy was standing??? 3 991's??

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXopgNt8TAs

    Is the second one agate grey?


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    agate grey is nice, but I wished there was something darker, lava grey is darker but has little bit of brown in it. I hope they bring back Slate grey.

    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    ***** Interview with Porsche CEO Matthias Muller *****

    "The View from Weissach..."

    New Porsche boss Matthias Muller stops absently stirring his coffee and fixes his piercing blue eyes on me: "Definitely not," he snaps. I'd just asked whether the increase in the size of the new 911 -- it's now more than a foot longer and almost eight inches wider than the 1963 original -- meant it was no longer Porsche's sports car. "The reason for the wheelbase increase is to improve comfort and dynamics. Walter Rohrl has driven the car 13sec faster than a 997 around the Nurburgring."

    Porsche seems a touch sensitive to suggestions that the new 911 is more a GT than a pure sports car, even though one of the development goals for the car, code-named 991, was to make it more comfortable as a grand tourer. As it happens, I'd seen Rohrl, the lanky rally and race legend who's now Porsche's hot-shoe at large, the night before and asked him how the four-inch wheelbase stretch -- and the subtle repositioning of the engine further forward in the chassis -- had affected the handling. "Much better," he'd said. "The turn-in response is now very good, and the longer wheelbase gives you much more confidence."

    Will there never be a Cayman that will outperform a 911? "If I look at pure performance numbers," says Muller thoughtfully, "then maybe." But then he quickly adds he believes Porsche's two sports cars are aimed at two entirely different customers -- substitution between the two cars is less than five percent in the United States. And with Turbo and Turbo S versions of the new 911 still to come -- as well as GT3 and GT2 variants -- you can bet there will always be at least one 911 variant that will be faster than even the hottest Cayman in the future.

    You also get the sense the decision to develop a seven-speed stick shift may not have been part of the original 991 program; that the smooth and lightning-quick PDK seven-speed automated manual was intended to be the only transmission offered on the new 911. The seven-speed stick, which won't be available until March next year, is based on parts from the PDK transmission, and features a sequential shift lock mechanism that will only allow seventh to be selected from fifth or sixth gears -- a subtle acknowledgement that negotiating the tightly-stacked shift gate in a hurry will be tricky.

    Indeed, if you look at Porsche's claimed performance and efficiency numbers, the PDK is clearly the higher-performance transmission of the two -- both the Carrera and Carrera S models with the PDK are quicker to 60 mph and more fuel efficient than the stick-shift equipped versions. But as long as the customer asks for it, says Muller, Porsche will build a stick-shift 911. The next GT3, he says, will not have a PDK transmission.

    Will there be a 911 in the new line up that will surprise us? "It's too early to tell," says Muller. But be prepared for a big change with the new 911 Targa. Muller says the problem with the 997-series version is that it was "not a real Targa". So the next Targa will look more like the original, with its black roll-bar and wrap-around rear window? "We have some plans in that direction," he smiles.

    Porsche is also working hard on hybrid and plug-in hybrid powertrain technologies. Could we see a hybrid version of Porsche's icon in the future? Muller doesn't rule it out: "If this [technology] will be available at 911 level is under discussion," he says simply.

    With its flat-six engine still hung out behind the rear wheels, an available stick-shift, and design cues that hark back half a century to Butzi Porsche's original, the new 911 is most certainly still a car defined by its past. But Porsche's new CEO clearly sees no reason to change that: "From our point of view, the 911 is a true icon and represents all the values that are important to the Porsche brand."

    Porsche-CEO-Matthias-Muller_MotorTrend-interview-link

    Smiley SmileySmiley


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Interesting, inspite of all the rumors in that regard, he says no PDK on the 991 GT3? 

    Classic targa looks for the 991 targa... that will be interesting to see how they can manage that.


    --


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    I wonder what he means when asked will there will be another variant of the 911 and answered "too early to tell".  I guess the good news is he did not say no.

    Would a mid-engine Porsche be considered a 911 or must they all be rear engine configuration?


    --

     


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Carlos from Spain:

    Interesting, inspite of all the rumors in that regard, he says no PDK on the 991 GT3? 

    Classic targa looks for the 991 targa... that will be interesting to see how they can manage that.


    --

    The only reason I can see to that is that they are not happy with the result so far and will not be able to get it right by the time the 991 GT3 is launched.   The fact that normally they had planed to have only PDK on the Carrera shows what direction gear boxes are going. So it is only a matter of time untill manual gear boxes are droped. That also probably means less and less devopment and attention will be put into the manual gear box.

    As to the Targa : It is a great moove to go back to the old look, as the actual ones are so unactractive .


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Some more pics of cars caught driving in Malibu a few days ago. Carrara white with Carrera red leather, Racing Yellow/Black and Basalt/Black.

    13165918332013.JPG

    13165918406634.JPG

    13165918496155.JPG

    13165918568341.JPG

    13165918808002.JPG

    13165918881336.JPG

    13165918950457.JPG

     

     

     

     

     


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    It looks like the 991 turbo may also have been on this run.

    13165921567788.JPG


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    The cab was also along for the ride with the usual disguise but the enterprising Carrera has taken care of that Smiley

    13165923786959.JPG

    131659239035910.JPG


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    nberry:

    I wonder what he means when asked will there will be another variant of the 911 and answered "too early to tell".  I guess the good news is he did not say no.

    Would a mid-engine Porsche be considered a 911 or must they all be rear engine configuration?

    A mid-engine Porsche could not be labeled 911, they would have to name it something else. I think the interviewer was asking more in this case about a new variant of the 911 that would bring something new to the table, kind of like the GT2RS ior GTS did in the 997 series.


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